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  1. #201
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    You're looking for evidence that you can touch, see, smell and feel. This is typical of what an intuitive must adapt to in the real world, in that we have to express concepts in concrete terms. I'm not begrudging this at all since it is a sensors world so intuitives have to adapt. But it is interesting to see the divide in real terms, in expression, communication styles, demanding that intuitives express their frustrations in concrete terms. Sensors like yourself don't owe intuitives anything. But intuitives don't owe sensors like yourself any explanations. How we think and communicate is the divide. How some sensors think and understand, is the divide.
    I may be misinterpreting, but I believe she's just asking people to "use words" to describe things, not fishing for cold hard evidence. As in, not just "I just know my not fitting in is because I'm N but I'm not going to say why this would be, it should be obvious". I don't think Ns (as a group) are unable to use words to describe concepts. They manage quite well on the forums here.
    -end of thread-

  2. #202
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I may be misinterpreting, but I believe she's just asking people to "use words" to describe things, not fishing for cold hard evidence. As in, not just "I just know my not fitting in is because I'm N but I'm not going to say why this would be, it should be obvious". I don't think Ns (as a group) are unable to use words to describe concepts. They manage quite well on the forums here.
    Nowhere have I suggested a "non-fit". Most intuitives have adapted to either describing their thoughts and concepts in concrete terms or not bothering at all. But Orangey appears to believe that if intuitives won't or can't explain in concrete terms, that their past experiences were imaginary. So maybe you can explain why intuitives MUST explain themselves and in concrete terms?

  3. #203
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    So maybe you can explain why intuitives MUST explain themselves and in concrete terms?
    Nobody has to do anything.

    Of course, any reasonable person will be skeptical of a claim made without any explanation, let alone evidence. And I tend to assume people on this forum are interested in discussing things rather than just throwing statements around without elaboration. But you're not obliged to help anyone else understand anything, by any means.

    edit: I'm not going to get involved in the various pissing contests, but I remember Orangey saying multiple times that she's not questioning the validity of the experiences at all, but rather she's questioning the attribution to N without further explanation. I think it's fair to ask for elaboration in that scenario.
    -end of thread-

  4. #204
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I have no problem using either concrete or abstract terms
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  5. #205
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    N's created forums to get away from the sensors of the world?? Oh My.

  6. #206
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    Nobody has to do anything.

    Of course, any reasonable person will be skeptical of a claim made without any explanation, let alone evidence. And I tend to assume people on this forum are interested in discussing things rather than just throwing statements around without elaboration. But you're not obliged to help anyone else understand anything, by any means.
    Hope you're not suggesting that the explanations already provided by other intuitives aren't crystal clear. They are to me.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Nowhere have I suggested a "non-fit". Most intuitives have adapted to either describing their thoughts and concepts in concrete terms or not bothering at all. But Orangey appears to believe that if intuitives won't or can't explain in concrete terms, that their past experiences were imaginary. So maybe you can explain why intuitives MUST explain themselves and in concrete terms?
    I am certified N. Yes it's true, I have had 3 professionals confirm it now and I am saving up for the big assessment. Sometimes N's can't even understand me. But I almost always get where N's are coming from. Why don't you explain your N to me? and even to the rest of us. You seem such the expert, and you feel elite. Put up, lets see what you got.

  8. #208
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Hope you're not suggesting that the explanations already provided by other intuitives aren't crystal clear. They are to me.
    I don't want to pick on anyone in particular, but no, they weren't clearly describing why S was a factor rather than simple closed-mindedness, intolerance, blind adherence to social norms, and/or failure to appreciate differing talents in our society. These are not synonymous with S, for the record, nor do only Ns struggle with people like that.
    -end of thread-

  9. #209
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    Whenever I talk with someone, I just always assume that the burden is on me to communicate my ideas in an effective way. That means that I communicate with people differently based upon what I know about them, or what I can surmise about them, because I know that people have different priorities, experiences, and thought processes.

    That approach seems to lead to less headache and frustration in the long run

  10. #210
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I don't want to pick on anyone in particular, but no, they weren't clearly describing why S was a factor rather than simple closed-mindedness, intolerance, blind adherence to social norms, and/or failure to appreciate differing talents in our society. These are not synonymous with S, for the record, nor do only Ns struggle with people like that.
    Which is interesting considering that many of the S's described, do get along well in society where other S's have no problems aligning with their mentality. That's not to say there aren't flexy and cool sensors. Not all sensors are carbon copies of each other, like not all intuitives are. But to suggest that it's not a frustrating exercise for intuitive children to express themselves to a world full of sensors before they've adapted to a more concrete world of thinking, is an unwillingness to meet in the middle. With this in mind, why should intuitives bother to meet in the middle? Well because, it's a sensors world and we have to adapt in order to do well, which is what most of us have done and succeeded like a hot damn.

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