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  1. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    How is it pattern recognition to feel your partner's anger from a distance in your sleep just moments before he calls (and he wasn't mad at her, either)?

    How is it pattern recognition to be downstairs talking to someone and suddenly get the feeling of someone either looking at you or getting an interior sensation I can only akin to something like "tapping on your shoulder" and go upstairs and realize someone has messaged you repeatedly asking why you're not responding?

    How is it pattern recognition? Pattern recognition is Ne.
    I knew you'd say that... and I'm S. In those situations either you mentally didn't notice what your body sensed or your mind is playing tricks and assigning meaning where there is none.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    I knew you'd say that... and I'm S. In those situations either you mentally didn't notice what your body sensed or your mind is playing tricks and assigning meaning where there is none.
    *sigh* No, this happens too much to too many people to "coincidence" or that "their minds are playing tricks on them" ...especially when it happens with the same individuals like one's children or best friend or partner or whatever over and over and over again.

    Just because you aren't capable of something doesn't mean it doesn't exist, which is exactly what I said earlier, but it's not Jungian/MBTI intuition...in that type of intuition you can actually trace where you have jumped around, there are idea marks or physical cues which led you to the conclusion, it's a perceiving process based sheerly in piecing things together in a rather non-linear way (Ne) but if you backtrack carefully you can see where you got to where you're at.

    In these cases, it appears to be more feeling based, seems to be extremely common among Feeler types or females, but I'm not going to have this conversation.

  3. #143

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    *sigh* Okay then. I have to make pancakes anyway.

  4. #144
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    (Note: this rant isn't directed at any particular person) Even though I'm an intuitive, I must say, the whole N "tortured soul" thing really gets on my nerves. Nobody's out to get you. Just live your life. If you didn't know about MBTI, you wouldn't even have anything to complain about. Ss are just regular people and so are Ns. You aren't special, so quit thinking you are.
    You lose.

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  5. #145
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    Well, seriously, it's pointless to have conversations with people who are closed minded and negate other people's experiences.

    Especially when many people have those experiences. It has nothing to do with believing in god, or religion, or magic. I believe it may be a function of the human experience we do not yet understand.

  6. #146
    S Saiyan God Mace's Avatar
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    We live in the modern world *because* of Intuitives. Without them, there is no way forward.

  7. #147
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    You grew up with people who were not very capable of flex or multiple perspectives, not an extreme S environment. That they were Ss is incidental to their closed-mindedness.

    Right, so it has nothing to do with S or N.
    I wouldn't say "nothing." I think if we actually have an argument here, it's when you make these black/white comments, either/or, whereas I see it far more gray than you do, and then feel driven into the role of "opposite" of your position, whereas really I'm more moderate.

    Just because personal maturity/open-mindedness plays a role doesn't mean that there is no correlation whatsoever. That remains to be shown here. The Big Five actually finds the Openness quality more representative of MBTI iNtuition.

    I think an interesting survey would be one that tests for Sensing and iNtuition among conservatives vs liberals.

    Quote Originally Posted by burymecloser View Post


    Thanks, hadn't read the thread split yet.

    Re: proof/cynicism, it just doesn't seem like there's been much effort, in this thread, to find a middle ground. I'd love to see everyone a little less defensive -- not taking things personally or making them personal -- and more prepared to compromise or admit when the other side has a point.
    I'm not sure how many more times I can take the middle ground in this thread, aside from my short-lived pissing match with Orangey.

    And, in response to someone else's recent post, I'm not sure how many more times I can say, "It doesn't really matter what you're stuck with in life, it's still your responsibility to make good for yourself because no one else is going to do it for you." If you look at my life, you'll see an N stuck in crappy S circumstances for her childhood, who still took charge of her life and still has maintained significant relationships and friendships with S people. (Otherwise I'd live in a cave, because I don't know a lot of N people in real life.)

    This is just an online forum, and only a sliver of the personality and lives of the people involved... and probably IRL, if I was having this conversation with the same people around a table, we'd be interacting just fine. For some reason, text-posting without any presence or body language leads to the craziest arguments.
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  8. #148
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    If MBTI/Jungian theory is accurate, no one can deny it's a sensors world. So intuitives have had to adapt, create their own niches where they're accepted or curled up into an embryonic ball. To negate that these two points and suggest that intuitives haven't had difficulties, is to suggest that intuitive struggles were all for naught and made up in their heads.

    As someone who doesn't knock sensors, who has real life and cyberspace sensor friends, it's kind of disturbing to read how cyberspace reflects some of my foundational real life experiences, albeit not the worst ones.

    I also came from a rigid sensor family. But regardless of struggles and there were many, I also have leveraged myself out of the foundational dark hole and have taken control of my life, just like Jennifer. It's also true that no one can do it for you but yourself.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    If MBTI/Jungian theory is accurate, no one can deny it's a sensors world.
    How?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    To negate that these two points and suggest that intuitives haven't had difficulties, is to suggest that intuitive struggles were all for naught and made up in their heads.
    No, it's to suggest that whatever struggles they have had are being misinterpreted as being the result of their N-ness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    As someone who doesn't knock sensors, who has real life and cyberspace sensor friends, it's kind of disturbing to read how cyberspace reflects some of my foundational real life experiences, albeit not the worst ones.
    Whatever this means.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    I also came from a rigid sensor family. But regardless of struggles and there were many, I also have leveraged myself out of the foundational dark hole and have taken control of my life, just like Jennifer. It's also true that no one can do it for you but yourself.
    I also came from a rigid family. See how I left out the sensor part? They are fundamentalist Christians, and they have at different points in time accused me of being possessed by the devil and forbade me from talking about religion with my siblings. Is it because they're sensors? No. Is it because a mistaken belief system pervades their every thought and behavior? Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I wouldn't say "nothing." I think if we actually have an argument here, it's when you make these black/white comments, either/or, whereas I see it far more gray than you do, and then feel driven into the role of "opposite" of your position, whereas really I'm more moderate.

    Just because personal maturity/open-mindedness plays a role doesn't mean that there is no correlation whatsoever. That remains to be shown here. The Big Five actually finds the Openness quality more representative of MBTI iNtuition.

    I think an interesting survey would be one that tests for Sensing and iNtuition among conservatives vs liberals.

    I'm not sure how many more times I can take the middle ground in this thread, aside from my short-lived pissing match with Orangey.

    And, in response to someone else's recent post, I'm not sure how many more times I can say, "It doesn't really matter what you're stuck with in life, it's still your responsibility to make good for yourself because no one else is going to do it for you." If you look at my life, you'll see an N stuck in crappy S circumstances for her childhood, who still took charge of her life and still has maintained significant relationships and friendships with S people. (Otherwise I'd live in a cave, because I don't know a lot of N people in real life.)

    This is just an online forum, and only a sliver of the personality and lives of the people involved... and probably IRL, if I was having this conversation with the same people around a table, we'd be interacting just fine. For some reason, text-posting without any presence or body language leads to the craziest arguments.
    Unless you're prepared to say that all Ss have the potential, when taken to the extremes of their Sness, to be closed-minded, then no, it doesn't have anything to do with S or N.
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  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I also came from a rigid family. See how I left out the sensor part? They are fundamentalist Christians, and they have at different points in time accused me of being possessed by the devil and forbade me from talking about religion with my siblings. Is it because they're sensors? No. Is it because a mistaken belief system pervades their every thought and behavior? Yes.
    Again, I would be really curious to see how many iNtuitives flock to join fundamentalist religions, vs liberal religions.

    We both agree that it's not a matter of causation; however, we would still have to explore potential correlation.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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