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  1. #131
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I don't think it's the case either, but allow me to borrow socionics for a second, and say that a big difference there in how NPs try to engage the interests of others is Ne - in socionics, they're called infantile (not infantile, in an immature sense.. just that they would come at people indirectly, with fun or novel approaches). They would not be natural fits for the aggressive approach of ESP's more sensual, singleminded nature. It doesn't mean that Ne wouldn't be womanizers though. Nor would it mean that an ENFP or ENTP wouldn't try to fake the ESP approach. My own little theory is that lot ENPs (especially men) are insecure by their own ideas, shaped by images of popular culture, where they start believing that the Se way is better. That or they just sit back, feel alien to all of it, and don't do anything. The introverted extroverts.

    Ne

    interest is sparked in partner with positive aesthetic attributes divorced from active, "aggressive" sexuality
    tend to try to attract partner's interest with joking, goofy or even "strange" behavior
    try to help partner see the unexpected and fun side of things
    interest is maintained or cools off according to partner's response to this behavior
    appreciation for partner who actively cares about the individual's comfort and daily needs
    neutral with regard to externally admitting who took the initiative in ending a relationship, "power" is seen as unimportant in such matters


    Se

    no doubts about own interest in another person
    not prone to hesitation about whether or not to reveal that interest
    focus is more on own interest than whether or not the other person might reciprocate
    romantic interaction is more about "toughness" than "tenderness"
    needs to feel some sense of "superiority" over the partner, but worthwhile only if the partner is seen as able to largely "keep up"
    this takes the form of power games, which others might regard as cruel or bitchy
    in the case of female Aggressors with male partners, the above tends to assume the characteristic of a woman expecting total devotion from the partner, rather than her being "bossy"
    little inclination to externally admit not having been the one to end a relationship, unless if adopting a "who cares" front simultaneously
    Ah well, now all my hopes are gone... and I alredy was making up some scandal like drinking too much and vomitting in front of camera then, to come as a famous playboy aswell into the newspaper... Now I am depressed

    (good description tho )
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    8. Ns do not divine things from the ether.
    Overall, this post was better than you just randomly calling people idiots when I went out of my way for the entire thread to talk about the poor descriptions and stereotypes in Keirsey and talked about how I tend to communicate better with some sensing feelers than I do with certain other intuitives.

    "Divining things from the ether" is a subjective and questionable statement, and I believe it relates more to the ability to feel the feelings of loved ones or pick up on someone needing you or having a feeling that something is going to happen. That's not Jungian or MBTI Intuition. In my experience with SFs they are equally capable of this or believe in this as well. It's happened to me repeatedly with SF types I've been close to, or they might claim having the same connection to their partner, mother, sister, best friend, or children. It's a mistake to confuse that kind of intuition with Jungian/MBTI personality theories.

  3. #133
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    "Divining things from the ether" is a subjective and questionable statement, and I believe it relates more to the ability to feel the feelings of loved ones or pick up on someone needing you or having a feeling that something is going to happen. That's not Jungian or MBTI Intuition. In my experience with SFs they are equally capable of this or believe in this as well. It's happened to me repeatedly with SF types I've been close to, or they might claim having the same connection to their partner, mother, sister, best friend, or children. It's a mistake to confuse that kind of intuition with Jungian/MBTI personality theories.
    I actually had some SF female friends when I was younger who were really into fantasy, magic, etc... something that mistakenly gets categorized as NF instead. There's more of a "flavor" difference. The friend who was really into that stuff forsook it later... for organized religion and God belief, but it's the same sort of intensity and "magical style" thinking. There just tends to be more of a flavor difference due to preference, just as I think S typically develops more nuanced skill with the details and tangible reality of things, and the things not within that sphere are approached with less nuance. The same thing seems to be in play for N, where they learn to grasp the subtle undercurrents of implications but often either buckle down way too hard on details or not enough. Preference leads to practice and frequency of use, which then develops more expertise with a given approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity
    I agree with you. I'm talking more at the Ns who are saying that N is the biggest difference and by itself is enough to ensure "alienation" or whatever feelings. I do not think that all Ns feel this way.
    No, it does not ensure alienation, as much as being S should not ensure alienation in a predominately N environment. Alienation is more based on whether a given environment, regardless of the majority opinion, can still foster and encourage alternate views and approaches. I happened to grow up in an extreme S environment, with people who were not very capable of flex or multiple perspectives; but if I had grown up somewhere else, even among S types, I might have done just fine. (My parents would have done their best to cultivate my individual and find a place for it in the family, etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by marmie.dearest
    It would be no different than an Intuitive parent telling their Sensor child who loved to do nothing but play sports and socialize that they were a mindless idiot.
    Ironically, I recently heard about an N-style couple who has a very young kid who likes to constantly be tossing balls in boxes and doing lots of hands-on things. Neither was into sports. Apparently they're flummoxed.

    (I think it's good for them, and for him... if they can figure out how to accurately see his gifts and inclinations, then encourage him to become himself.)

    I agree with your comment about manifestation of SJ. A lot of popularized MBTI conceptualization of SJ is a holdover from the 1950's SJ-style mentality. That was merely a manifestation of SJ approach, but SJ will manifest differently depending on the culture the members were raised in.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #134
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    I'm not talking about fantasy nor magic. I am not talking about magical thinking. I'm talking about knowing that someone needs you, or feeling their pain. There was an INTJ on another forum talking about how an intense feeling of inexplicable anger woke her up the other night, and her bf called a few minutes and he was angry.

    I have these experiences all the time with people I'm close to. It's a very real phenomenon, but it has nothing to do with liking the fantasy genre (I actually don't) nor does it have anything to do with MBTI.

  5. #135

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    That kind of intuition is pattern recognition. People would come about it in different ways.

  6. #136
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    What I'm talking about is not pattern recognition. This is not what this thread is about though.

  7. #137

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    That is what that intuition is, but anyway, it is another subject.

  8. #138
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    How is it pattern recognition to feel your partner's anger from a distance in your sleep just moments before he calls (and he wasn't mad at her, either)?

    How is it pattern recognition to be downstairs talking to someone and suddenly get the feeling of someone either looking at you or getting an interior sensation I can only akin to something like "tapping on your shoulder" and go upstairs and realize someone has messaged you repeatedly asking why you're not responding?

    How is it pattern recognition? Pattern recognition is Ne.

  9. #139
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I happened to grow up in an extreme S environment, with people who were not very capable of flex or multiple perspectives;
    You grew up with people who were not very capable of flex or multiple perspectives, not an extreme S environment. That they were Ss is incidental to their closed-mindedness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    but if I had grown up somewhere else, even among S types, I might have done just fine. (My parents would have done their best to cultivate my individual and find a place for it in the family, etc.)
    Right, so it has nothing to do with S or N.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    nor does it have anything to do with MBTI.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Overall, this post was better than you just randomly calling people idiots when I went out of my way for the entire thread to talk about the poor descriptions and stereotypes in Keirsey and talked about how I tend to communicate better with some sensing feelers than I do with certain other intuitives.

    "Divining things from the ether" is a subjective and questionable statement, and I believe it relates more to the ability to feel the feelings of loved ones or pick up on someone needing you or having a feeling that something is going to happen. That's not Jungian or MBTI Intuition. In my experience with SFs they are equally capable of this or believe in this as well. It's happened to me repeatedly with SF types I've been close to, or they might claim having the same connection to their partner, mother, sister, best friend, or children. It's a mistake to confuse that kind of intuition with Jungian/MBTI personality theories.
    We are in complete agreement (and for the record I agreed with your points about Si and the SJ descriptions being alienating to young or progressive SJs.)
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  10. #140
    Senior Member burymecloser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    The Bonfire
    An area for socializing and lighthearted general discussions.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    @burymecloser: Thanks for the comments and for your opinion. I already answered the one question in the thread split; and as far as "proof" goes, there's a difference between proof and cynicism. If you want to better understand my rationale, you should look at the context of this specific thread rather than expanding it back out to general rational principles that we already notably agree on.
    Thanks, hadn't read the thread split yet.

    Re: proof/cynicism, it just doesn't seem like there's been much effort, in this thread, to find a middle ground. I'd love to see everyone a little less defensive -- not taking things personally or making them personal -- and more prepared to compromise or admit when the other side has a point.

    You may say I'm a dreamer... :redface:
    i just want to be a sweetheart

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