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  1. #61
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering View Post
    That's because pink shirts and fairy stickers are inherently evil (So says the grown-up who actually uses neon, sparkling and scented gel pens in her fiction notebooks... )


    "Do you support your party's take on abortion, young lady?" :yim_rolling_on_the_
    Some of the kids in my daughter's class got Fly Pens for Christmas last year (super cool computer-pen thingies that say what you write and stuff like that). They think it's hilarious to write stuff like "Poop on George Bush" with those things and have the Fly Pen guy say it. Yet, I don't think any of them could tell you a single thing GWB has ever done, except for some stuff they've regurgitated from one of their parents.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
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  2. #62
    Senior Member celesul's Avatar
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    Actually, in Victorian times, it was opposite. Little girls wore light blue, the more delicate color, while little boys wore pink, seen as light red, toned down passion, while blue was calm. So it's all quite arbitrary. The desire to wear pink by little girls comes entirely from it's association with femininity. Although, girls are usually seen in more pastels than boys, regardless of the individual color or time.

    And then there are some kids who combine stereotypes, and don't go to either extreme. Most little girls had barbies and little boys trucks. My parents solved a few problems by getting legos, with both little lego people and the potential to build, and I ended up with legos and playmobil. So I made stories and castles, and neither doll is good for dress-up, while my brother liked anything that moved quickly. Not to say I didn't like dress-up dolls when I was little, I did, but I was just as happy, if not happier, with homemade paper dolls than barbies. ^.^ Not as pretty, but far more fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering View Post

    But the thing is: boys don't CARE. Girls do. A girl will go out of her way to convince her mom to buy the pink shirt instead of the green one, while the boy just won't care.
    Not quite true... My brother, as a 2 year old, refused to wear anything but green, and after a few months, wore anything but green. I think he walked around nude a few times because he didn't want to wear non-green clothes. Then again, he was two.
    "'You scoundrel, you have wronged me,' hissed the philosopher. 'May you live forever!'" - Ambrose Bierce

  3. #63
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Man, Barbie has had every job known to (wo)man! She has been an astronaut, a vet, even the president. If I were hiring Barbie I would want to know why she has changed jobs so much.


    Actually I'm not sure you were being serious but I have been pleased to see my daughter doing that kind of active pretend with Barbie more than the "which boy likes me?" passive crap I hate. I've found that the underlying messages you give to children are MUCH more important than the superficial stuff like pink/blue and Barbie-must-die.
    I was being serious! I really like your approach to parenting, Ivy. Very engaged and calm. Assertive...Energy. TSST! (Again though, I was being serious. I dig your style.)

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Well said, FMW.

    I haven't really observed OMGPINKILUVU so much in my dealings with my daughter and her peers. The ones that like pink, even if they REALLY like pink, aren't so hung up on pink that they won't wear any other colors. Some of them are dogmatic in the other direction ("Pink?! I HATE pink! Anyone who wears pink is a girly girl and not awesome like me!").
    Where were those girls for me? I was surrounded by All Pink High. "We are Pink." GIGGLES. I was so isolated. (even though I was friends with them, as I was with many different and opposing groups lol, but they scared me because MOST were OVERLY/OVERTLY girly... but not in a good way. In a "Oooh, boys. kekekekeke! I'll play along into the stereotype"

    Ah, fun memories though! I managed to help a few out of the Pinkdom! (really, now it's just Valley Girlism that's the issue....I'd sooner see pink than hear "That's like, so like, you know?" "I know, like, what was like her issh?" or Pink coupled with the VG strain which is much worse...


  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by celesul View Post
    Actually, in Victorian times, it was opposite. Little girls wore light blue, the more delicate color, while little boys wore pink, seen as light red, toned down passion, while blue was calm. So it's all quite arbitrary. The desire to wear pink by little girls comes entirely from it's association with femininity. Although, girls are usually seen in more pastels than boys, regardless of the individual color or time.
    "arbitrary"... I'm sorry... that's just not the case per scientific study. The Victorian examples are societally forced.

  6. #66

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    This thread is evolving into something very interesting. It's veering into the old society vs. individual debate. Is the individual "other" from society? I'd lean toward no, since society is simply a collection of individuals.

    In regard to the discussion at hand, does society unduly condition girls to like pink? It depends. Is this conditioning a deliberate action by a few influential individuals that are mislabled "society"? Or is it the result of a collective preference for pink that unconsciously and without agenda bleeds through into popular culture and discourse? I think it's the latter, and that's why I can't see anything malevolent or sexist in it. I think the concept of "society" is often anthropomorphized into a sentinent being with shady intentions, and I tend to see any statement that begins "Society conditions us to..." as a straw man argument. I think a lot of these arguments originate from the viewpoint that enjoying what most other people enjoy is inherently bad.

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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanan View Post
    The Victorian examples are societally forced.
    Society isn't forced now too? lol

  8. #68
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    Good post FM...

    now, I'm on my way as my INTPness is getting to me.

    Edit: don't know if I need to explain that... happens to by my area... so that's the INTP reference.

  9. #69
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMWarner View Post
    This thread is evolving into something very interesting. It's veering into the old society vs. individual debate. Is the individual "other" from society? I'd lean toward no, since society is simply a collection of individuals.

    In regard to the discussion at hand, does society unduly condition girls to like pink? It depends. Is this conditioning a deliberate action by a few influential individuals that are mislabled "society"? Or is it the result of a collective preference for pink that unconsciously and without agenda bleeds through into popular culture and discourse? I think it's the latter, and that's why I can't see anything malevolent or sexist in it. I think the concept of "society" is often anthropomorphized into a sentinent being with shady intentions, and I tend to see any statement that begins "Society conditions us to..." as a straw man argument. I think a lot of these arguments originate from the viewpoint that enjoying what most other people enjoy is inherently bad.

    This is fun
    Very well said once again. As long as other options and preferences are not locked out I can't really see it as a problem. Again, things like character and confidence are so much more important than what color a person likes or doesn't like.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeliriousDisposition View Post
    Society isn't forced now too? lol
    I get it but, no, not in the respect I was discussing it's natural/physical/emotional affects. Technology/science wasn't developed (in this way) in victornian times. It wasn't realized, scientifically, that the affects could be used commercially. The whole point I was making.. the fact that its scientifically provable and, therefore, usable is an indicator that natural preference is "used" not "conditioned."

    Edit:... K, like I said. LOL

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