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  1. #51
    Highly Hollow Wandering's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMWarner View Post
    Actually, the ubiquity of it is what makes me comfortable with it. The fact that 95% want it, instead of let's say, 70%, make me feel that there must be a reason for it, even if I'm not enough of an anthropologist to say what that reason is. 70% says it's a trendy thing that might be adopted for the wrong reasons. But if 95% of them are inexorably drawn to it, then I can't see how a negative connotation can be ascribed to it.
    That IS one way to look at it...

    Think of anything that 95% of people love...be it the Beatles, sunny weather, or chocolate chip cookies.
    Actually, I'd imagine that the percentage of people loving those things would be much closer to 70% than 95%.

    I'd go even further and say that I can't think of a single thing that 95% of a given population would actually love - unless they were brainwashed into loving it, which takes me straight back to my concern about little girls and pink

    IOW: I don't believe in universal tastes, because I've never come accross one that wasn't forcefully promoted by society in some way. So when I do come accross something that is unreasonably loved, I automatically suspect that there is some kind of manipulation taking place somewhere.

    Paranoid, me? Naaah

  2. #52
    Highly Hollow Wandering's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I haven't really observed OMGPINKILUVU so much in my dealings with my daughter and her peers.
    Good! It means I'm only seeing the exceptions - probably because they are so much more visible - and not the rule

    Some of them are dogmatic in the other direction ("Pink?! I HATE pink! Anyone who wears pink is a girly girl and not awesome like me!").
    You go girls ! Spread the word!!!

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering View Post
    Then why is it realistic in a kid ?


    That's not the same! Excluding one color from many, is not in any way similar to excluding all-but-one colors! Everyone has colors they don't like, and that's normal. But being fixated on one color only, that's what I find worrying.


    Conditioned into what, though ? If anything, it seems like boys are conditioned into not caring about what color they are wearing... Which in my mind isn't anywhere as bad as being conditioned to love one and only one color...

    And of course: if boys can indeed be conditioned into not caring about a particular color, then why can't girls be too??

    Oh, and your feeble excuses won't fool me. I *know* you did the blue thing on purpose
    Veery short answer: I think to say they "only" accept one color is a stretch... but, true, minimal choices... They have not matured.. kids usually only like a few foods until their taste buds develop more.... color is the same... its a visual/physical sense.

    You miss the point... girls are not "conditioned" into caring about a color. They are, in fact, encouraged to stick with their natural preference. Boys, are ignored in their preferences and "conditioned" to think it feminine to care about color.

    Commercialism capitalizes on the affects of color and our natural preferences... think I stated that. If they did not affect us "naturally" that wouldn't be the case.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Honestly, it's just a color. If a color is breaking your heart I think you might need to toughen up a bit.
    (I've got some tops splashed with pink. )

    When I became a mother I was steadfast that I was NOT going to impose gender stereotypes on my child. I chose greens and yellows over pinks and blues, and we offered her a wide variety of both gender-neutral and specifically "girl" OR "boy" toys. We avoided commercialized or demeaning stuff like Barbie and so forth. For Christmas when she was 2 we got her a giant Tonka truck and a set of natural wood blocks to haul in it. Another relative gave her a Barbie, her first, and it was like watching people fall in love. The Tonka truck became a Barbie transportation device. The wooden blocks made homes for Barbie and her friends. Every girly gift she was given-- tutus, fairy costumes, commercialized princess gear-- was latched onto like it was water in the desert. We ended up having the girliest of girls, despite our attempts to raise her neutrally.
    Mommy? But yea, sometimes it'll happen 'despite' not trying. I don't think it was a despite of you though, it was a fair neutral balancing. If she'd latched onto either, it was by her choice. Just as for boys who become "effeminate" without influence of "dolls" and people are shocked (or blame dolls if there were any). I was mostly a tomboy, sports and nature and all, but I STILL could be a "girly girl" because I liked playing with makeup a bit (age 10+) and dresses and (mom's )jewellery whatnot and well-- Even playing House (Always mom...). Even when questioned by people who knew me, I'd tell them I was a tomboy who wasn't ashamed looking like a girl (And I physically matured early so ) but most never saw the "girly" side so it shocked them, keeee! I only couldn't touch Pink. Saw too much of it of girls I knew and felt slighted for all of femdomkind! ... I'm over it now. I just tease for fun. My best/f calls me a Traitor though (but she's a (teasing) hypocrit..a few tops of hers have TINY splashes of pinks. Hmph.)

    IMO giving little girls dolls and pink and frilly crap is only bad if parents REFUSE to also give them access to the other stuff IF THEY WANT IT. My daughter takes martial arts and basketball and enjoys it all but at her heart she's a girly girl, and I've just had to learn to live with that. I could have forbidden Barbie and gotten rid of the gifts, but what purpose would that serve but to set up an adversarial relationship with a little girl who clearly loved that kind of stuff? (She knows we won't buy Barbie stuff and she knows how I feel about it.)
    YES! Give'em girls and boys access. Sheesh. (haha @ not buying Barbie. That brand is of The Devil.....I used to tortch/disfigure them but nothing feared me deeply like Barney and co... )

  5. #55
    Highly Hollow Wandering's Avatar
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    Good points, Seanan...!

    And there and then Wandering discovers - no, RE-discovers - what other Feelers, especially INFJs it seems, and including herself, figured out multiple times before her now: it often doesn't do any good to try to discuss logically something you have a strong emotional reaction to...

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering View Post
    Good points, Seanan...!

    And there and then Wandering discovers - no, RE-discovers - what other Feelers, especially INFJs it seems, and including herself, figured out multiple times before her now: it often doesn't do any good to try to discuss logically something you have a strong emotional reaction to...
    thumprints

    here's a link if you ever want to delve further:

    Color Psychology and Marketing

    I just skimmed it and found much lacking.. for instance red stimulate digestive juices and, therefore, increasing appetitie... good color for a restaurant.. it also is not conducive to staying in long... therefore, table turnover is faster.

    Yellow, on the other hand, decrease that activity ... taking appetitie away... not good for a restaurant but great if your dieting. :-)

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanan View Post
    here's a link if you ever want to delve further:

    Color Psychology and Marketing
    Aren't you afraid it will only feed my paranoia ? We ARE being manipulated, I tell ya!!

    Oh, and thanks for the link !

    Edit: huh, yellow, heh? Not exactly my favourite color anymore... Exchanging red for it is gonna be a heartbreak !

  8. #58
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering View Post
    You go girls ! Spread the word!!!
    Meh. I think it's probably an attempt to please their "you go girl!" parents more than an expression of their own making. My daughter, who enjoys girly things but is I think very well-rounded, gets some fallout from the anti-pink brigade. They don't see that she loves Aikido or climbing trees or Spiderman or any number of other neutral-to-boyish stuff. They see the pink shirt and the fairy stickers on her notebook and that's as far as they look.

    These kids are in 3rd grade which is, I'd say, the height of parent-emulation. They don't have a deep understanding of this stuff for the most part, they're just aping. They also claim alliances to the political party of their parents' choice, and the sports team, and so on.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering View Post
    Aren't you afraid it will only feed my paranoia ? We ARE being manipulated, I tell ya!!

    Oh, and thanks for the link !
    You're right... we are! and I use the knowledge to manipulate clients into buying my paintings

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    They see the pink shirt and the fairy stickers on her notebook and that's as far as they look.
    That's because pink shirts and fairy stickers are inherently evil (So says the grown-up who actually uses neon, sparkling and scented gel pens in her fiction notebooks... )

    They also claim alliances to the political party of their parents' choice, and the sports team, and so on.
    "Do you support your party's take on abortion, young lady?" :yim_rolling_on_the_

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