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  1. #31
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Can anyone identify the social norms that gains one acceptance at MBTIc? There is a status quo here and posters are more highly liked by how closely they abide by it. I'm curious to know if anyone has figured out what some of them are. I like seeing how forums create their standards of behavior and often wonder if people are aware of what these "rules" are. I'm particularly interested in how the bolded ones manifest here.

    Social norms are:
    I actually think this forum has a lot fewer social norms than most other forums I've encountered. Or if they do exist the forum members are a lot less assertive in enforcing them. Even though my own politics are left of center (by US standards) I have been on forums where 10+ posters jumped onto my case because my comments were not "left" enough. Most of the stuff I've seen here is pretty tame by comparison.

    I'm not saying that this forum is without norms. I'm simply saying that social penalties for violating them are usually less severe than most other forums I've been to. The worst backlash that I've seen here was when Sona was a regular poster. Those threads basically reveal what a lot of the social norms are.
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  2. #32
    Resident Snot-Nose GZA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    First of all, why does anyone think left-wing liberals are open-minded? As far as I'm concerned, they're ordinarily just as narrow-minded as the right-wing conservatives, because they are quite intolerant of more conservative viewpoints and dismiss validity without actually understanding them.

    And fanatical atheists are in the same boat as fundamentalist Christians. They just operate on opposite ends.
    I agree, Uber. Isn't communism just forcing people into specific choices rather than allowing free will? I don't think it's fair to say that left wing means more open minded. Personally I think centrist politics and agnosticism are the more open minded philosophies because they both look at both perspectives and realize the validity in each and try to combine them in a way that works. Thats actually why I hate politics, its too "liberal vs conservative", "red vs blue", ect, rather than looking at ways to use both ideaologies to benefit everyone. I'm personally centrist (but slightly to the left) when I do think of politics, and I'm agnostic but spiritual.

    I think its sad how people sometimes look down on Sensores here. Thats kind of a norm by frequency, and I think we should show more appreciation for sensors. Its like the politics, we can't only talk about the qualities on N, because then we fall to appreciate the valuable perspective S brings to the table and, ironically, we miss the big picture.

  3. #33
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    I think the norms have changed over time. To begin with, the dominance on the board was overwhelmingly INTx, so the tone was not very much different from INTPc - religious belief, emotional expression, sociableness and friend-making felt to me like things that were unspoken-edly penalized and sent a person down in the estimation of the group.

    However, though the membership is still disproportionately towards INTx's, there are enough other types around now so that the previous disdain for the things INTx's disdain is no longer as guarunteed to gain support and approval as previously. That's a sorta stuffy way of saying because extraverts are such blabbermouths, it only takes a few of us to counterbalance many more voices.

    I also think that with the addition of more Feelers, as well as extraverts, it's no longer a 'given' that the place isn't for making friends, and with the addition of more SP's it's also no longer a given that the place is primarily for serious discussion, or that the serious discussion ought to outweigh the lighter stuff. It's caused many of the 'old guard' to review some of their opinions on other types and the worth and place of what it is each of them do best, as well as the legitimacy and validity of their expectations of the board and to what extent they are, have been or should be catered for.

    There is a general thing though that people don't tend to attack madmins publicly, and to be more respectful and reasonable when disagreeing with them than they sometimes are with other members. Reasons seem too obvious to mention.

    Though the addition of other types seems to be having a counterbalancing effect on the previous INTx-weighted environment, I still do not think there are enough non-Americans as would be necessary to truly counterbalance the overwhelmingly American flavour of the board.

    Obviously the primary language being English puts many at a disadvantage but that can't really be avoided - and the use of other languages is well tolerated here. I've known other places to have madmins swooping down on anyone who utters so much as a sentence of non-English, giving warnings and remonstrations for it; it's nice and refreshing, how tolerant this place is and how willing the monoglot English speaking majority are to engage with people with origins outside the English speaking world.

    But culturally speaking, there is a very dominant and palpable (to the non-American) vibe of American culture that runs right through the forums, so that threads, topics or people who are not relevant to or of some interest to the American audience are often ignored at best, or at worst misunderstood and insulted. American values (e.g. democracy, nuclear family, marriage being about two people falling in love, etc) are taken as read as being either what the poster holds, should hold, or has been raised with even if they've departed from them later in life, IOW it's assumed we're all familiar with them and have at some point subscribed to them.

    Points that are to be made need to be phrased in US English, for consumption of those seeing the world through an American 'lens', and this is the approach that's understood as the given starting point for posters, whereas those starting from a different cultural worldview can't post under the assumption that this view will either be noticed or understood, as Americans can here. Religion is one case in point or example of this, as I've pointed out previously, that when debating issues of why people believe or follow religions, the assumption tends to always be that what they're reacting to or interacting with, is something within the parameters of what's understood or experienced by Americans as religion and its (actual, not necessarily ideal) place in society.

    I'm not complaining about any of that, just pointing it out.

    Edit - proteanmix saying that the leaning towards atheism/agnosticism suggests to her that this makes a person seem more "open minded" is an example of the whole interpreting everything through American eyes, since as I've pointed out before, it's more remarkable and non-conformist in Europe to be religious, whilst not being is quite normal and definitely the path of least resistance.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member nottaprettygal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadir View Post
    I am guessing that personal pictures as avatars, if they were to be negatively considered, would be considered as "crude". But, really, I don't get the point of making such a judgment. (I understand that this is not the judgment of proteanmix or nottaprettygal, btw.)
    I think it violates a norm because it is mainly something that is done by pretty girls. Therefore, many people assume that it is merely a way for them to get attention. Plus, I think an internet forum is a place where people can communicate ideas to one another in an anonymous way. When someone's posts are responded to more simply because they have their pic as their avatar it's sort of like we're back in the real world where the beautiful (and extroverted) people get more attention than the rest of us.

    Those are just some thoughts that I don't necessarily agree or disagree with.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by GZA View Post
    I agree, Uber. Isn't communism just forcing people into specific choices rather than allowing free will? I don't think it's fair to say that left wing means more open minded. Personally I think centrist politics and agnosticism are the more open minded philosophies because they both look at both perspectives and realize the validity in each and try to combine them in a way that works. Thats actually why I hate politics, its too "liberal vs conservative", "red vs blue", ect, rather than looking at ways to use both ideaologies to benefit everyone. I'm personally centrist (but slightly to the left) when I do think of politics, and I'm agnostic but spiritual.

    I think its sad how people sometimes look down on Sensores here. Thats kind of a norm by frequency, and I think we should show more appreciation for sensors. Its like the politics, we can't only talk about the qualities on N, because then we fall to appreciate the valuable perspective S brings to the table and, ironically, we miss the big picture.
    If I'm political, it's because of my own beliefs. I don't really put myself in a definite side of the political spectrum. I've got some liberal viewpoints and some conservative viewpoints. Sometimes I'm liberally conservative and sometimes I'm conservatively liberal. As an I, I am energetically conservative, and as a J, I am cautious about change, fiscally conservative, and prefer security to spontaneity. As a T, I tend to be logical and mistrustful, which is sometimes considered a conservative viewpoint. But as an N, I do enjoy fantasizing and coming up with ideas for fun. But I'd hardly consider myself open-minded.

    Really, I don't see many N's here who are open-minded. Contrarily, it seems that the SPs here are the most open-minded and accepting, because their normal mode is functioning in the here-and-now and are normally optimistic about the future. An N, on the other hand, is more inclined to see what's around the corner, and depending on their personal values and how they conceive things, they can either be open or closed to change.

  6. #36
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    I don't think it is a norm to look down on Sensors... well, it's a norm for certain types it seems, to look down on Sensors and those types do seem to make up the majority here, but I don't think it's encouraged or applauded here at all when people do it. At least in my observation it seems people seldom get away with type bashing of any kind here.

    Also - writing long posts used to be criticized heavily, but isn't so much any more. (thank God )
    Last edited by substitute; 02-24-2008 at 09:06 PM.
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  7. #37
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    my first avatar was a pic of me, but it was from a distance and I was bundled up in a coat stepping on a dummy's head, so I wasn't really all that easy to identify!

    Overall, I think it's kind of a norm for the members to try and regulate themselves without the madmins having to step in and do something about the situation- which is probably a good thing! I know I've sent out PMs to people to smooth things out or tell them to play nice in the past and I don't even have any power

    I think that it's a norm not to insult someone's pic in the pictures thread- why?- because that's just not a nice thing to do! (not that I can think of anyone I would insult there really )

    I think also that it seems to be a norm that whenever something throws off the balance of the site a bit there will be at least 3 different threads discussing the issue from different perspectives!

    Oh- and DON'T call me an N! I LIKE to be a sensor!
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    Oh- and DON'T call me an N! I LIKE to be a sensor!
    That's just the thing, I think that if someone is an S, chances are they prefer to engage in the experiential side of things rather than dream of imaginary concepts. People are neither S nor N, people choose to be S or N. And it just so happens that their preference tends to reflect their behavior.

    People seem to confuse the terms intelligent and intellectual. Granted, an N is more likely to be classified as an intellectual, because an intellectual in its proper definition is basically one who seeks knowledge for the sake of knowledge or someone who likes to play with ideas. An S is more likely to be interested in the practical applications.

    Intelligence, however, is just your ability to think and reason, and this is something the MBTI (and, in my opinion, IQ tests) does not measure.

  9. #39
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Not sure about that Uber... I'm definitely an experiential/action person. I wouldn't be happy sitting around contemplating the abstract all day. I don't think the contrast is between action/contemplation, but more between what the interaction is mainly with, from the person's point of view - the abstract or the concrete, physical or intuitive.

    whatever and I are both action and experience oriented people, but where she interacts directly with the physical and sensory aspects of the world, experiencing those, I do the same thing, only with the abstract and intuitive aspects. But we both live in an intense world of experience and practice rather than theory and contemplation, despite our dominants being Ne and Se.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  10. #40
    No me digas, che! Recoleta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    Oh- and DON'T call me an N! I LIKE to be a sensor!
    Seconded. I am happy and content being an S, and would not change myself if I had the chance.

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