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  1. #21
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I'm frequently confused by my ESFP sister and we're only one letter apart!

    definitly not just based on S and N
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArbiterDewey View Post
    No, this thread isn't what you're probably thinking.

    I have noticed when listening to two of my friends (Metamorphosis/Hexis, both N types) that their conversational manner is on the same "wavelength" for lack of a better word. There is seemingly no time set to interpretation, they just know. It is as though they know exactly what the other person means, at all times. While myself, an S type, even in conversation with another S does not have this quality. It is as though I know exactly what I'm talking about, but I have to go far out of my way to get the other person to understand exactly what I'm saying or the point that I'm making. Two S types I find have the hardest time at this.

    An S type talking to an N type, as far as I've heard brings stress to the N type. They're so used to being immediately comprehended that having to go out of their way for an S to comprehend them is seemingly a waste of time (as I have seen. May not be the case for all.)

    What are your thoughts?
    I'm probably inserting my foot where it doesn't belong because I'm not sure of the types but I do, with my limited knowledge, think most of the people around me are combinations of "S" and/or "F" and communication with them is a constant chore for me as it is, likewise, for them with me. I've said over and over again while seeing them interact, that "you guys are talking some kind of code." Its like they have some kind of spoken shorthand that I didn't learn. I don't consider myself a mental slouch but, in 20 years, I still haven't learned the "code." They, on the other hand, find me to deep/wordy/lecturing.. whatever. But when I'm with someone (I'm only guessing) is an NT that problem doesn't exist. I, usually, readily get what they're saying while the SFs have turned to look out the window.

  3. #23
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    the only people who ever confuse me are Ns. i think of myself as extremely good at understanding other people; i intuitively know and understand what assumptions they're making and where they're trying to go, even when they don't explicitly say anything. almost all S types seem pretty straightforward and easy to comprehend (although i may strongly disagree with the assumptions they start from).

    the real problem for me comes with Ns (although i communicate extremely well with most of them). NPs, especially, use a lot of metaphors to represent their ideas, and sometimes it's almost impossible for me to deduce their assumptions from those metaphors. usually what will happen is i'll be able to narrow down what they're saying to two possible interpretations, but i won't want to pick one and respond to it for fear of being wrong and having to explain my entire thought process and how the misunderstanding happened.

    my best example of this is with Wildcat (no offense meant by this at all); his Ne is sooo incredibly strong (i sometimes suspect he's ENTP) that i can come up with 3-4 logically coherent interpretations of what he means, and i always need to ask clarifying questions to figure out which one to pick.

    now, all of the above was about my ability to understand. but when it comes to my excitement level and connection-feeling, i much much prefer Ns. and i feel like Ns can understand ME much better than Ss can. actually, i take that back. Ns can dynamically respond to my ideas much better than Ss.

    but in general, i always try to be as clear as possible with people, and i think pretty much everyone can understand what i'm trying to say. i think that's because i'm consciously aware of all the possible ways to interpret what i'm saying, so i make sure to clarify each thought i have. so most of the time, when i'm off in my intuitive rants with Ss around, they can follow what i say, but i think they just kinda tune me out and say "wow, that kid thinks way too much".

  4. #24
    Free-Rangin' Librarian Jae Rae's Avatar
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    Usually I have no trouble understanding INTPs, although I might not be interested in their topics. However there can be a disconnect when we talk about feelings. Eg, my husband got a friend of his a job where he works, a job the friend wanted for a long time, but he was let go because the boss didn't like the friend's personality.

    I asked my husband how S. felt about his last day on the job. He said "well, S. knows [our boss] didn't get along with him. He actually felt better about it than I did." I gave him my you're-not-answering-the-question look, but he still didn't give me a "feeling" answer, instead told me how S. understood it just didn't work out.

    I knew what he meant - basically his friend is OK - but he didn't get to the
    part about "S. is worried about getting another job" or "S. is disappointed he wasn't accepted and didn't fit in." As an INTP, he isn't concerned about the deep Feeling part; knowing his friend is OK is enough.

    Jae Rae
    Proud Female Rider in Maverick's Bike Club.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jae Rae View Post
    Usually I have no trouble understanding INTPs, although I might not be interested in their topics. However there can be a disconnect when we talk about feelings. Eg, my husband got a friend of his a job where he works, a job the friend wanted for a long time, but he was let go because the boss didn't like the friend's personality.

    I asked my husband how S. felt about his last day on the job. He said "well, S. knows [our boss] didn't get along with him. He actually felt better about it than I did." I gave him my you're-not-answering-the-question look, but he still didn't give me a "feeling" answer, instead told me how S. understood it just didn't work out.

    I knew what he meant - basically his friend is OK - but he didn't get to the
    part about "S. is worried about getting another job" or "S. is disappointed he wasn't accepted and didn't fit in." As an INTP, he isn't concerned about the deep Feeling part; knowing his friend is OK is enough.

    Jae Rae
    This example just cracked me up! It so shows what goes on at home. The problem is that woooord... "felt".... my answer would have been "I don't know; he didn't tell me" which your husband was more diplomatic about. Now ask me what he looked like, what his plans were... anything but "felt" because I really can't know that.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArbiterDewey View Post
    An S type talking to an N type, as far as I've heard brings stress to the N type. They're so used to being immediately comprehended that having to go out of their way for an S to comprehend them is seemingly a waste of time (as I have seen. May not be the case for all.)

    What are your thoughts?
    The painfulness for me with most S types in my family life has been their assumption that I am stupid because they cannot understand me and I find it hard to make myself understood. They get impatient, cut me off, attempt to apply what little I was able to get out before they cut me off to something concrete from their own personal experience and take me far more literally than I intended. I feel like I am shouting into the wind with some of them. I don't mind taking the time to explain myself to someone, but if they won't listen and have their minds already made up that I am talking vague nonsense, then it is hard to have patience or sympathy in return for them.

    I have an ISFP friend who is easier to talk to though, although she gets uncomfortable with some of the things I bring up because it gets too abstract and vague for her, so I just try hard not to go into those places with her and we have a fine time together otherwise.

  7. #27
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    The painfulness for me with most S types in my family life has been their assumption that I am stupid because they cannot understand me and I find it hard to make myself understood. They get impatient, cut me off, attempt to apply what little I was able to get out before they cut me off to something concrete from their own personal experience and take me far more literally than I intended. I feel like I am shouting into the wind with some of them. I don't mind taking the time to explain myself to someone, but if they won't listen and have their minds already made up that I am talking vague nonsense, then it is hard to have patience or sympathy in return for them.

    I have an ISFP friend who is easier to talk to though, although she gets uncomfortable with some of the things I bring up because it gets too abstract and vague for her, so I just try hard not to go into those places with her and we have a fine time together otherwise.
    I know what you mean.
    My INFP sister has a Master's degree, and is incredibly good at whatever she does, yet the S types in my family have the gall to make fun of her intelligence, just because they don't "get" her. I don't agree with everything she says either, especially when she starts telling me about the latest conspiracy theory she's subscribed to, but really they're out of line. Thankfully, they don't do it to her face, but I don't see where they get off doing it at all.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I don't agree with everything she says either, especially when she starts telling me about the latest conspiracy theory she's subscribed to, but really they're out of line.

    She hasn't learned to keep quiet about that? In my opinion, whatever an INFP shows to others is the barest peek into what they really hug close to their hearts. Just let little snipets of it out and see if any others care to take the hint and if conditions aren't favorable, they don't cast their most precious pearls before the masses. jmo.

  9. #29
    Rats off to ya! Mort Belfry's Avatar
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    As most people I know and work with are Ps, I have noticed a difference between the style of conversations specifically for Ne and Se.

    When I and other NPs are talking, our conversations seem to involve ridiculous scenarios. A conversation starter might be something like: Is it legal to punch a corpse?

    We can talk for a good many hours on something like this, exploring different facets and whatnot. I think Lenore termed this style of conversation, Holistic Spiralling (I hope I used that correctly) in that in the course of the conversation there is no clear goal. Even though it is a yes or no question, the last thing we want to hear is yes or no.

    Se conversation seems to concentrate around the stimulus it enjoys. An ISFP I work with seems to give the best example of this. All he wants to talk about is chicks and cars. This is tiring for me as I am both gay and have little interest in ever getting a license. Whenever he talks about dating an FHM model or something, all I try to do is completely invert everything he has to say.

    He'll say, "Isn't she hot, bro? Yeah bro mean."
    To which I'll say, "What a haggard old beast, I bet she had grandchildren at seventeen."
    To which he'll say, "Whatever bro, you'd do her."
    (I assume this means he doesn't yet know I'm gay.)
    "Maybe with a knife," I'd say, "And only in that gaunt vacuous expression."

    The person who wins is the one who makes the other one frustrated enough to leave the conversation.
    Why do we always come here?

    I guess we'll never know.

    It's like a kind of torture,
    To have to watch this show.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mort Belfry View Post
    Se conversation seems to concentrate around the stimulus it enjoys. An ISFP I work with seems to give the best example of this. All he wants to talk about is chicks and cars. This is tiring for me as I am both gay and have little interest in ever getting a license.
    Much sympathy on that. With my ISFP friend, we talk about our husbands, our pets, her children (whom I love endlessly or that would get really tiresome), scented candles and Christmas stuff (which I have odd si obsession with at times), the 80's and movies we have both enjoyed and some light literature discussion and Fi venting about stuff.

    Do you find more in common with any ISTP because of the Ti link?

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