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View Poll Results: Which would be more attractive to you ?

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37. You may not vote on this poll
  • I want an argument. The nastier the better. Subject-irrelevant

    0 0%
  • I want a nasty argument - It should relate to a pre-existing stance

    2 5.41%
  • I want an argument with an edge- no ad hominem, though.

    10 27.03%
  • I hate to admit it, but I am more attracted to a dispute.

    4 10.81%
  • It doesn't matter to me if it is an argument or neutral, if the subject is interesting

    23 62.16%
  • I won't participate in a dispute unless I am awfully sure, and so I find arguments limiting

    7 18.92%
  • I tend to avoid most disputative threads.

    4 10.81%
  • I despise argumentative threads. They suck.

    5 13.51%
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Thread: Argument

  1. #31
    Senior Member Alienclock's Avatar
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    @alienclock
    Your post is too long, convoluted and unclear. It also seems a bit personal and argumentatively hyperemotional, thats why I did not read it.

  2. #32
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    for those of you that "skip" posts and "skim" threads... read this one.

  3. #33
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alienclock View Post
    @alienclock
    Your post is too long, convoluted and unclear. It also seems a bit personal and argumentatively hyperemotional, thats why I did not read it.
    No need to get personal.

    ...

    As far as "personal" goes, I read for "attitude." An argument can get heated, but if I can tell it's because the issue is important to them AND they are trying to find common ground rather than just crush or dismiss someone else, then the emotion is okay.

    It's when the argument is being made mostly just to disenfranchise someone or just protect someone's intellectual investment, rather than trying to be fair / open to the other ideas, then I become highly annoyed.

    And attitude over time does become palpable.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #34
    Senior Member Crabapple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alienclock View Post
    I appreciate disagreements because I am curious to see the flaws in my beliefs ideas etc. I would also like to be exposed to new ways of looking at stuff, and the logic behind different viewpoints. If a disagreement can further my understanding, even if I "lose" the argument its like I've won.

    I don't actually mind if someone confuses the heck out of me or if I can't tell if they are joking or serious... as long as they are not simply being mean without actually making a point... (unless they are really really creatively funny. hee hee, the bastards!)

    about getting personal...

    What is personal and what is considered impersonal? We don't know each other in RL, so how could anything be really personal? To me it crosses the line when you conclude that a certain person has perhaps portrayed systematic stupidity in posts, then every time you come across any of their comments you take a jab. Thats sorta personal, because you are not responding to their current post but to your general feelings about all of their posts, and the person that you imagine is behind the posts. Also, it kinda kills the continuity of the emotion and subject matter within the current thread.

    I think that each thread should be treated individually. Assumptions made about a person due to specific thread(s) may be unavoidable, but it would be much more pleasant if... we focused on the OP and the comments actually made within the present thread.The only type of "arguments" I don't like are the ones where it appears that certain people have made assumptions, and concluded amongst themselves that they are correct, then they sorta make hostile comments to a specific individual, regardless of how mild that persons current comments are in the current thread.

    about dogmatic rigidity and apparent stupidity... or getting "emotional"

    One more thing, please leave the typism behind. All types have the ability to be emotionally and or intellectually advanced, or retarded. Type speaks more about how you interface with and/or process the environment, and not about who you actually are, or what you actually believe.

    As to all this talk about emotions, all types are emotional. A conversation, or even debate, without emotion is sorta like two robots exchanging 1 and 0's. Its not going to happen. And if it did it would be dull, and never funny or offensive. Thinking types are in NO way vulcans, and emotions are exactly what cause people to post on a board like this one. If someone were actually a vulcan, what would be the purpose of chatting with strangers? Would you be harvesting ideas or something? Just because you PERCIEVE emotion behind a specific post does not mean that its not just a robot yanking your chain, or that the post is lacking in logic.

    Lets leave the emotional fantasy behind that certain types of humans are sitting at home typing to folks thru their pc without emotion. Thats illogical. (get mad about it )

    edited to add...

    Summary, to make arguments more yummy to me, don't bring type into unrelated discussions, its not smart. Consider each Thread (with proceeding comments ) individually, and then it wont be personal. If you want emotion left out of things, don't talk to humans, get a robot.

    Shucks, you folks are welcome to try and reign in my mind, rabies and all, I could use the help.

    And by the way, I am willing to discuss anything I think at length, and will even try to make it understandable to the T(s). Can't say I wont get on your nerves though... can't say I wont secretly think you are a little stupid for not being able to navigate the labyrinth I have set before you either. Grow, grow! emoticons in the hands of the fluffy rule!(ps vulcans were actually hyper-emotional and passionate and they had to repress their emotions in and submit to pure logic because their overly passionate nature was destroying them... I am beginning to suspect the same of some Ts... or are they just .....
    Yeah! The Vulcans were like the Romulans! That's all I gots to say.

    JK.
    Alienclock rules!

    I don't have much to say, change, add, or subtract. I find that The Alien and I are in complete agreement on this.
    Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
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  5. #35
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    mmmm romulan......

  6. #36
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alienclock View Post
    @alienclock
    Your post is too long, convoluted and unclear. It also seems a bit personal and argumentatively hyperemotional, thats why I did not read it.
    Great post. But one question - were you addressing all of my comments, or just responding to that one before putting forth your own? Cause I don't mind explaining the difference in our perspectives if you disagree with why I seperate the personal from the disputes, even though it's for the same reason (avoid previous views, typism, etc.).

    I tend to respond in kind - that is, if the conversation is impersonal, I'll stay impersonal... but at the same time I'll reflect the temperment and style of the one I'm responding to.

  7. #37
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    .
    Last edited by JivinJeffJones; 09-12-2007 at 03:20 PM.

  8. #38
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    haha. yes it would. how do you know that experiment is not already in effect?

  9. #39
    Senior Member Alienclock's Avatar
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    @ptgatsby

    Thanks for saying great post... But I think you quoted the wrong one. uh.. I hope...:eek:
    Great post. But one question - were you addressing all of my comments, or just responding to that one before putting forth your own?
    I shoulda been more clear, I am in agreement with what I quoted from your post, (but I think your sentiment is not only true for intps) and was addressing sorta everything I think about online arguments. Not so much your post, as my ideas and observations...
    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I don't mind explaining the difference in our perspectives if you disagree with why I seperate the personal from the disputes, even though it's for the same reason (avoid previous views, typism, etc.).
    Fair enough.

    1. Would you be willing to explain the difference in our perspectives if I think I agree with you? If yes, please feel free.
    2. What is the difference between personal and not personal in a post?
    Like you I do appreciate the difference in tone here at mbti central (ie I like NOT being locked in the dungeon + fairness + nice moderators + and more accepting peeps) ... I think its fanfuntastic. ps. I didn't think that you were being typist in your post. I don't think I disagree with you... uh... your post seems good... but if there is disagreement I would like to know what it is...

    edited to add full and unnecessarily and potentially disastrous disclosure
    Quote Originally Posted by Crabapple View Post
    Yeah! The Vulcans were like the Romulans! That's all I gots to say.

    JK.
    Alienclock rules!

    I don't have much to say, change, add, or subtract. I find that The Alien and I are in complete agreement on this.
    Your agreement with me does not count, and may look bad to others... as you are . . . (drumroll). . . my sister!
    Furthermore, I shall never agree with you online or in life! I change my position, hunt people you think are dumb and haunt them with typist remarks and complete dismissal of their current position...

  10. #40
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alienclock View Post
    @ptgatsby
    1. Would you be willing to explain the difference in our perspectives if I think I agree with you? If yes, please feel free.
    2. What is the difference between personal and not personal in a post?
    Like you I do appreciate the difference in tone here at mbti central (ie I like NOT being locked in the dungeon + fairness + nice moderators + and more accepting peeps) ... I think its fanfuntastic.

    ps. I didn't think that you were being typist in your post. I don't think I disagree with you... uh... your post seems good... but if there is disagreement I would like to know what it is...
    I wasn't in disagreement exactly - I just wanted to know if your post was in the context of mine (where I made a big point of saying that I don't like personal content) or just in general. I just wasn't sure how to take it!

    I don't think we have that different of a perspective really. I just define personal as anything that doesn't have to do with the topic at hand - I try to avoid bringing anything other than the subject matter into a post. However, I don't think it's negatively personal to adjust your communication style to who you are responding. That's an important part of communication! So perhaps we disagree slightly here, even though I know where you are coming from.

    I am, however, in total agreement about projection. One of the first rules online is to give the benefit of the doubt!

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