User Tag List

First 56789 Last

Results 61 to 70 of 114

  1. #61
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    4,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I'm certainly not saying I perceive it as a strength, I'm saying it's often perceived as strength by society in general. If it wasn't, as Annwn wrote, House or the other guy (don't know who he is) wouldn't be popular. What's condescending to one person is playful to another, the balance is in knowing the difference. A person may claim they are only being playful with their barbs- but if the person they are antagonizing doesn't see it that way, then it's no longer being playful.
    My apologies ZBuck- i misread your post on the first go round and misunderstood your message. Sorry if my reply seemed to carry any value laden undertones.

    When a communication gap in encountered, are there suggested ways to resolve? Should the issue be raised or ignored from your perspective? I suppose I tend to raise privately if I find it to be a particularly confusing, hurtful issue as I never expect other to intentionally be hurtful as I only very rarely intentionally hurt others.

  2. #62
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/so
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Have I been directly or indirectly referenced in this thread?

    Cuz if so, I'm ready to pick a fight!


  3. #63
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    4,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Annwn View Post
    When I'm in a debate that goes sour and uses personal insults, I try not to have a set judgment about the person. Sometimes I have felt a judgment, but I try to distance myself and reason through it, but I make mistakes and so know that can happen as well. I find that for passive-aggression or even overt aggression, assuming no ill intent tends to be constructive more often than not. In actual experience I don't know what the motivations are. In speaking broadly it seems reasonable to assume there are harmful motivations at times and obliviousness at other times.
    The approach you describe sound like what i try and do as well. Fi values can be so very sensitive, that it almost always best to look past them and assume no ill intent. However it has taken me a very longtime to recognize others might actually have harmful motives-it seems so very strange. Even when intentionally hurting others, often it seems people are simply playing into behavioral patterns, so it is difficult to condemn them for simply being what they are, as each person should have the freedom to be authentic...but I have learned to avoid them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Annwn View Post
    Communication between people is complicated and often confused, and most every possible scenario takes place. It will never be perfect or clear. By addressing certain destructive dynamics in broad terms and abstractly, people discussing and reading can apply it wherever it makes sense to. I don't think that every scenario where someone gets hurt is based on the same intentions or dynamics, and it is important to make that distinction.
    I agree that each conflict will be unique. However I suspect at this point our approaches might begin to differ. Very naturally, almost innately, people around me are segmented and judged according to different expectations-a categorical approach. If patterns can be found that broadly describe the most common types of issues seen, then the information can be applied to those segments in isolation-as the more specific templated solution more productively resolves the issue. This works for MY mind however-but is by no means expected to be a universal approach.

    wrt to the illustration of MS-I actually dont have a TV so i miss most of the nastiness people dump on one another-intentionally. To feel their pain stresses me out a great deal. To intentionally hurt another person is wrong. If this is seen to happen-internally I am almost compelled to stop what I see and confront the offender-but almost always with "Do you understand that you were hurting this person?" Always an inbuilt assumption of obliviousness.

  4. #64
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    7,233

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Isn't life difficult enough? I guess it's just the ones who really seem to be out to pick a fight all the time that I really wonder about. Weird. Arguing just doesn't interest me.
    The fuck is your problem?

  5. #65
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    4,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Have I been directly or indirectly referenced in this thread?

    Cuz if so, I'm ready to pick a fight!

    ENFP interp:

    YOU TALKING ABOUT ME? ARE YOU TALKING BOUT ME? DONT MAKE ME COME OVER THERE!!!!!


  6. #66
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4
    Socionics
    INFp
    Posts
    3,403

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Can be applicable both ways.
    Yeah that's why I wrote a bit more about it. There is a difference between proper debates and arguments, there have been posts the have described this more thoroughly. I would say that its a cycle and when in that argumentative cycle we are learning something, its like an energetic intensity created not for other people but for the arguer to attempt to understand what the resistance is in the first place. In doing so pull many different energies into the energy field and ignore boundaries of what it means for satisfying debates. Then they get messy after many issues and triggers start happening that seem unrelated to people being drawn towards the issues. Yet strangely there is a continuity and discontinuity here that is related on a subconscious level in some way to the persons invested in the arguments. Rather than good facilitation of debating it goes a bit left or right, like a zig zag I guess.

  7. #67
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4
    Socionics
    INFp
    Posts
    3,403

    Default

    Its like my dad and the mechanic repairing his car. The mechanic is doing his job, dad yells at him hurry the fuck up man! The mechanic glares at him and loses his concentration and fucks up the repair. lol

  8. #68
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4
    Socionics
    INFp
    Posts
    3,403

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    Funny, I almost feel afraid to post anything about functions in threads anymore..
    That's just silly talk. Your debating conversation style is fine.

  9. #69
    Charting a course
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    3,638

    Default

    Why do so many people seem to come on this forum to argue?
    Because they feel so powerless in their real life, that getting on the forum and acting like a complete asshole is a form of stress relief.

    ...Or, they are just total asshats, 24/7 365.

    I vote for the first option. Most people aren't ambitious enough to always be an asshat.


  10. #70
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    The purpose of eristic debate is, of course, rhetorical, and I think that's what everyone here takes umbrage with (since we live in a culture that views persuasion as inauthentic, and therefore running counter to good moral principles.) Yes, the aim of each participant in eristic is to deploy persuasive stratagems in such a way as to defeat an opponent and win the assent of a public regardless of the truth of the propositions being argued. While that may sound ignoble to those of us with high-minded ideals about discovering "truth" through discussion (which is in fact hypocritical), the fact remains that "truth," especially in matters not associated with pure mathematics or logic (i.e., anything that could be debated about), is an elusive and indeterminate thing. In any given debate neither the participants nor the audience have any final proof for the logical truth of their propositions, and so it is their duty to strive to give their side a running chance and to use all tactics at their disposal to persuade the audience of the greater likelihood of their propositions.

    Even if a debater is convinced by his interlocutor, at that moment, that his own propositions are false, he must still battle for his own side because of the chance (however small he may think it) that his propositions are actually true (and he just hasn't thought of a clever way of arguing it.) He/she would certainly not want to discard a proposition due to momentary setback only later to discover that he was right all along. There is also the benefit that he might stumble, in the process of arguing, upon better ways to argue for his own side. The point is that, when talking about subjects that cannot be proved through some sort of logical or mathematical algorithm, "truth" is nothing more than rhetoric anyway (no matter how much we may wish that this isn't the case.) Thus, we must use what means of determining the better propositions that we have (i.e., the assent of a public), and that takes a certain skill which is cultivated through the practice of eristic debate.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

Similar Threads

  1. Why on earth do so many people interfere with other people's lives?
    By Comeback Girl in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 10-01-2013, 01:11 PM
  2. Replies: 11
    Last Post: 07-23-2012, 10:13 PM
  3. [NT] Why does so many people fail to get rich?
    By yenom in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 113
    Last Post: 07-26-2009, 09:32 PM
  4. Replies: 135
    Last Post: 07-04-2009, 10:00 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO