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  1. #111
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    Nobody's impervious to the expectations of society. Men and women form a community, and the community generates men and women based on general expectations.
    Base determines superstructure, men can't be blamed for it.
    they CAN be blamed for referring to me as the assistant of any male I'm working with when I'm almost always the supervisor

    seriously... having to work a full time job AND be expected by traditional society to do the housework when I get home is pretty shitty... fortunatly I have a REAL man who carries an equal weight around the house as well
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  2. #112
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Ya, since I am the regional cook in the kitchen of my girlfriend I gain more and more weight aswell -.-
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #113
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    we've divided it up... I do most of the cooking in the kitchen and he does most of the dishes... this is in part because I'm the better cook and I'm terrible at washing dishes... the rest of the housework we do together on the weekends
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    Real men are gone because women - confused by the media - overcompensated for their former oppression by agressively changing the old male ideal to a new ideal they didn't know they actually hated.

    It's pretty ironic, you've killed your other halves, and now, realizing your own flaws, want them back. Sorry, it might be too late.
    Oh as if. I grew up in the South and trust me when I say there are still plenty of traditional men there, more than you could ever want or need, as well as in other countries outside of the first world West. My exes concept of manhood was still somewhat rooted in the Mexican idea of macho because of his father being Mexican, although he's an ESFJ with a British mother. I actually find this concept of "manhood" kind of ridiculous and frustrating to deal with. I'd much rather have the newer ideal of Metrosexual guy as long as he's mature and rational, and not some empty-headed pretty boy.

  5. #115
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    We have the exact same division I dont like to do the dishes aswell, so we divided it into the same parts . Once we have a bigger apartment tho I'll get us a dish washer, dish cleaning is one of the most frustrating tasks .

    I do the vacuum cleaning aswell and she does the bath, I do the washing and sort dried clothes into the shelf she does the hanging up ( she has a system to hang things up I was never able to understand ). The worst thing in the world tho is cleaning the cat toilet. The stench this little thing is able to fabricate kills an elephant herd .

    An intresting thing is, I was raised completly differently. My mom's an housewife and a pretty clean one at that, she did everything for us, we didnt even learn to bring dirty clothes into the bathroom. Well fortunately it didnt damage me, I needed some time when I moved in with my girl to adapt a regular pace to do things and to get an eye for the household at all, but now it's set. I am quite convinced there isnt one thing in the world one cant learn if he just sets his mind to it and I find it definitly very low brained if its needed to argue about household. That's a thing kids should learn just to do like breathing and eating
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    at subway...

    if you ask nicely you might get one, but don't speak to me in that tone of voice young man

    and while you're at it, wash your mouth out with soap for using that sort of language

    (the later part is giving you a sample of womanhood from that same time period... I have a grandma )
    OH AND THIS TOO. Such a good point, Whatever. If you find yourselves an old-fashioned woman she is bound to tell you to stop cussing, wipe your feet on the mat before you come into her house, and inform you that you have to buy her a bunch of stuff before she'd even think of sleeping with you.

    I say this as a woman who still has a strong concept of femininity - I'm pretty girly and I actually like to cook, and I like the idea of a man being strong and decisive, that is, MENTALLY strong and decisive, though.

  7. #117
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    @ entropie... we have exactly the same division of labor at home... probably because my ExxP ass isn't trusted to do any task involving attention to detail
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  8. #118
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    [...] and I like the idea of a man being strong and decisive, that is, MENTALLY strong and decisive, though.
    Small side note: you cant imagine how difficult it is as an entp to come off as mentally decisive and strong. Emotionally decisive is no problem but before people see that they see first you are crazy . I was always wondering at young age why woman tended to never write me love letters but always the other guys and just nowadays I tend to realize what the cause of this might have been, because I think the majority of woman like a man who is mentally decisive and strong in that definition .

    ( I should have used a 'just joking' sign when I was a small boy, saying all that free-of-fantasy woman when I am joking so there lack of looking behind the surface wouldnt damage their perception of me )
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    Nobody's impervious to the expectations of society. Men and women form a community, and the community generates men and women based on general expectations.
    Base determines superstructure, men can't be blamed for it.

    I disagree, you are saying that society itself sets those expectations. Well, if men were men and not so easily swayed, they would have set the standard to remain unaffected. They didn't. And why they didn't would be a greater question.

    If you ask me, it was due to laziness. Just as much as women wanted a change so did men, from the constant grind of the workplace. Although, while women stepped up their roles to fit the mans world, man stigma was not as quickly challenged. After all a man never REALLY could perform all of a womens job, reproduction and all. So men just fell into some grey area, while women kept picking up the pace.

    It isn't until now, how long later, that men are starting to finally evolve to balance out the roles, things like stay at home dad and such, but here is the funny thing. None of that matters, because in the time it to get on board, the balance of power was so one sided, it began to create the end of the family unit. So there is nothing left for guys to balance out anymore, and their roles continue to dissipate.

    What is the point of this? At any given time, men could have stepped it up, just like women did. Saying they can't be blamed is a bunch of crap. By that logic neither can women be blamed for going to work or not slowing down so men can catch up.

    Either way men have pretty much established themselves as the weaker gender at this point.

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Small side note: you cant imagine how difficult it is as an entp to come off as mentally decisive and strong. Emotionally decisive is no problem but before people see that they see first you are crazy . I was always wondering at young age why woman tended to never write me love letters but always the other guys and just nowadays I tend to realize what the cause of this might have been, because I think the majority of woman like a man who is mentally decisive and strong in that definition .

    ( I should have used a 'just joking' sign when I was a small boy, saying all that free-of-fantasy woman when I am joking so there lack of looking behind the surface wouldnt damage their perception of me )
    Yeah, this is what is behind "women like assholes" unfortunately. It's not so much that a woman wants to be abused or treated badly, but that she is instinctively drawn to someone who takes control. But I say "woman" in general because some women don't like that at all, and really do prefer to be the dominant one in the relationship.

    Sometimes women are confused and think they want something they don't, anyway. My youngest sister married a very traditional Muslim Saudi and ended up divorcing him surprisingly fast because he actually frightened her with how dominant he was.

    My math professor also told me that "most Russian men are horrible" and that I should stay away from them all unless they were "intellectuals" like him. lol. He really tried to beat it into my head how sexist Russian culture actually is, and how that mindset is still quite prevalent in most Eastern countries, and gave examples about how it's damaging to women and most American women couldn't even wrap their mind around it.

    Having grown up in West Virginia - which is thirty years behind the rest of the country - I'm sure I can wrap my mind around it, though I don't want anything to do with that, truthfully. The weird thing is, though, is that I've never met a Russian man in the United States who fit that stereotype, and the closest I've observed is some asswipe from Serbia who used to be one of my roommates when I first moved into this house (and he quickly got evicted.)

    I think women need to stop and think what "real man" means. My mother was married to some "real men" who did things like slap her hands when she didn't put a napkin in her lap, poke holes in her diaphram to keep her pregnant, and raped her and cut her brakes when she tried to divorce them.

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