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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Somewhat (apparently) if you follow Thomson's model. I can't find a better link atm.

    http://www.personalitypathways.com/thomson/type2.html

    edit: Or what highlander said.
    I think it's a combo. For example, SFPs or NFJs might be right brained, but TJs in general (N or S) might be more inclined to be left-brained.

    Like each letter (N,F,P on the right and S,T,J on the left) might make a person more inclined to be left or right brained, and as always, dependent upon the strength of their preferences.


    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    It's not irritating to me (more intriguing or amusing) but I did make that same connection
    It's irritating to me because everyone has to be politically correct, ALWAYS, now. No one is even allowed to point out normal, healthy differences that aren't necessarily discrimatory. It's not okay to be a white male anywhere anymore unless you're including blacks and women, and it's not okay even for different types to express differences or annoyances with one another, or for someone to express an opinion against the topic at hand without it being taken as "discriminatory" or "censorship" or some kind of "-ism."

    It's gotten kind of ridiculous, over all, and I think I just feel this way in general, not just toward this thread. Don't mind me.

  2. #92
    Senior Member Noon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Well you're taking out your impressions about attitudes about SJs on the ENTIRE FORUM in a thread about "where it sucks to be Intuitive" (apparently it fucking sucks to be in a thread where we complain about the bullshit we have to go through IRL with you people, not just IRL but here too!) and in response to ME, a person who never said that SJs are like that, in fact I've had several romantic relationships with SFJ men.
    It was a passing thought that I had while I was browsing this thread. Since it was related in some way to comments posted here, I thought it would be better to post it here than start an entirely new one. I didn't mean to say that you personally thought this about SJs, or even that this forum in particular seems to think that about SJs, but that this is even my experience at times when dealing with other SJs -- comments about me similar to those made by your grandfather and his wife, and one of your exes -- both at other forums as well as in real life, and I've even been disappointed in quotes made by supposedly famous SJs. The example I gave was intentionally exaggerated, because I'm increasingly starting to feel that if I don't fit into a mold like that, I'm seen as weird or faulty somehow. And I'm not an N, so I can't just turn around and have the ideal exchange with Ns either. It would be really bleak if this actually is the reality of the majority of SJs and what I can continue to experience in the future, that's all I was getting at.

    You people are really irritating me in this thread. It must be what the self-proclaimed Fi dom people feel like in their Fi threads when people like Arclight and come in and say "Even though I'm an Fe dom I'm gonna butt in and complain about how you're descriminating against me for even thinking you could have a thread about Fi for Fi doms."
    & I apologize again. I realize my first post might have been seen as destructive/dismissive and that my replies after that might have been seeming even more so. It was careless and self-absorbed from the beginning, and I made the wrong decision to post it in this thread. I know that now.

  3. #93
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I think it's a combo. For example, SFPs or NFJs might be right brained, but TJs in general (N or S) might be more inclined to be left-brained.

    Like each letter (N,F,P on the right and S,T,J on the left) might make a person more inclined to be left or right brained, and as always, dependent upon the strength of their preferences.

    It's irritating to me because everyone has to be politically correct, ALWAYS, now. No one is even allowed to point out normal, healthy differences that aren't necessarily discrimatory. It's not okay to be a white male anywhere anymore unless you're including blacks and women, and it's not okay even for different types to express differences or annoyances with one another, or for someone to express an opinion against the topic at hand without it being taken as "discriminatory" or "censorship" or some kind of "-ism."

    It's gotten kind of ridiculous, over all, and I think I just feel this way in general, not just toward this thread. Don't mind me.
    First, I agree with you about the political correctness thing.

    I think when the N types complain about things that "suck", the S types feel picked on because some of what is being complained about is how they respond to us - so we are criticizing them. If we say that the Si doesn't really try as hard to understand and appreciate Ni as well as the reverse, that is also a criticism. I find these things to be generally though not always true.

    I also get the impression that the sensors feel like some N poster interpretations do not reflect a clear understanding of what is to be like an S. They oversimplify their understanding of the functions. I think this is generally a fair statement. They are saying - if this is true, what kind of existence do I have moving forward? You look at me through such a narrow lens (the first two functions primarily).

    It's just a lack of understanding and appreciation that's going on in both sides. The way to help work towards addressing it is to try and really truly hear and understand the other, to understand their functions better and how they interrelate. Of course then we use all 8 functions in my belief - just not two. Just having awareness of these things is an important first step.

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  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    First, I agree with you about the political correctness thing.

    I think when the N types complain about things that "suck", the S types feel picked on because some of what is being complained about is how they respond to us - so we are criticizing them. If we say that the Si doesn't really try as hard to understand and appreciate Ni as well as the reverse, that is also a criticism. I find these things to be generally though not always true.

    I also get the impression that the sensors feel like some N poster interpretations do not reflect a clear understanding of what is to be like an S. They oversimplify their understanding of the functions. I think this is generally a fair statement. They are saying - if this is true, what kind of existence do I have moving forward? You look at me through such a narrow lens (the first two functions primarily).

    It's just a lack of understanding and appreciation that's going on in both sides. The way to help work towards addressing it is to try and really truly hear and understand the other, to understand their functions better and how they interrelate. Of course then we use all 8 functions in my belief - just not two. Just having awareness of these things is an important first step.
    Here's the thing though: we have GENUINE differences. Those differences are real. Being told that the things I thought about or cared about weren't "the right things" or "the important things" is a load of crap. So is always being told that you're "weird." I can tell you that the SFJ I talk to now (not my bf, just a guy I talk to regularly) and my ESFJ ex both tease me about being "nerdy."

    Ns get criticized and misunderstood CONSTANTLY IRL, even by people who love them. Of course they're going to vent some of that frustration here, and I don't think it's asking too much to have some controlling SJs butt out in a thread clearly marked, "Real Life Situations Where It Sucks to Be an Intuitive."

    I DEFINITELY don't even have the same strengths as an INTJ (if I am indeed an INFJ) even sharing several of the same letters. WE ARE DIFFERENT AND EXPERIENCE VERY DIFFERENT ISSUES AMONGST THE TYPES. I couldn't even pretend that I'm the same as an INTJ or INTP, because I'm not.

    So then I don't think it's too outrageous for Intuitives to say that, yes, we are different from Sensors.

    On the other hand, I don't think that the N/S difference should be made out to be more than it is, either. I don't think people should ever say that Sensors are less intelligent, or group them into a bunch of "useful" people who "grease the wheels" because that is insanely insulting, delusional, and preposterous. I know that Intuitive snobbery can exist, and I'm usually very much a defender of Sensors because of my close relationships in particular with Sensing Feelers.

    I even got annoyed at a thread that stated that NFs can spot each other in a crowded room without speaking, even if they're strangers. I believe that kind of thing is taking things a bit far. I am all for balance, for saying "hey whoa wait a minute, be reasonable."


    BUT this thread seems excessively filled with Sensors trying to argue how they're discriminated against...in a thread clearly marked REAL LIFE SITUATIONS WHERE IT SUCKS TO BE INTUITIVE.

    Whatever, I don't care, I'm far from the sort of person to "censor" anyone. I'm not annoyed with any one person, and not attacking any particular individual, I'm just expressing my opinion in a sea of other opinions.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noon View Post
    It was a passing thought that I had while I was browsing this thread. Since it was related in some way to comments posted here, I thought it would be better to post it here than start an entirely new one. I didn't mean to say that you personally thought this about SJs, or even that this forum in particular seems to think that about SJs, but that this is even my experience at times when dealing with other SJs -- comments about me similar to those made by your grandfather and his wife, and one of your exes -- both at other forums as well as in real life, and I've even been disappointed in quotes made by supposedly famous SJs. The example I gave was intentionally exaggerated, because I'm increasingly starting to feel that if I don't fit into a mold like that, I'm seen as weird or faulty somehow. And I'm not an N, so I can't just turn around and have the ideal exchange with Ns either. It would be really bleak if this actually is the reality of the majority of SJs and what I can continue to experience in the future, that's all I was getting at.
    Okay, and you are entirely certain you are ISFJ and not ISFP? If you feel THAT different from other SJs, I'm interested in why that is.



    & I apologize again. I realize my first post might have been seen as destructive/dismissive and that my replies after that might have been seeming even more so. It was careless and self-absorbed from the beginning, and I made the wrong decision to post it in this thread. I know that now.
    It's okay. I've already had an ISTJ try to continue a conversation from this thread on my wall, and I see a pattern here of the turn this thread appears to be taking, and I expressed my feelings about that. Don't take it personally, please don't think it's specifically you, you seem nice.

    My bark is much worse than my bite.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I think intuition if well developed can serve as a rough substitute for feeling because you become very adept at picking up on, synthesizing, and interpreting intonation, body language, etc. You can read between the lines (at least with Ni anyway). I've been told that I'm very good at this - or highly perceptive that is. What I'm not as good at is knowing the right thing to do or say to respond to these interpretations in the way that a feeler type would. An ESFP I used to work with for example, would have these same or similar interpretations (except he was able to notice everybody's reactions whereas I focused on a smaller number of people) but the ESFP would be more adept in responding to them in the moment. ENFPs also can seem masterful in this regard.
    You're probably right. I can think of at least one occasion where an INTJ suddenly turned to me very pointedly and said, "You don't like him, do you?" And he was right. I didn't like that guy, but I hadn't said so. It was all body language, I guess, and I suppose I was being watched.

    I get that feeling about INTJs sometimes...like they're watching very intently, but not saying anything, so I have no fucking idea what they're thinking. I find it both extremely intriguing and slightly unnerving.

  7. #97
    Senior Member Noon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Okay, and you are entirely certain you are ISFJ and not ISFP? If you feel THAT different from other SJs, I'm interested in why that is.
    The oddest thing about it is that I feel very SJ, and I always come up as Stabilizer first and mostly Theorist second on temperament tests. On Keirsey's temperament sorter, I score either NF or SJ. I identify a lot with Si and Ti. At first I thought the issue was that I'm really ISTJ instead of ISFJ, but I fit more with the descriptions of real ISFJs that ISTJs know. SPs that I know tell me I am too cautious, past-oriented, or interested in order.

    I have no idea why I don't relate as well to the famous SJs and some others as type says I should. There are a few SJs here on this site that I identify with a lot more because they're not walking stereotypes, and that's a big relief. It could be that I have to go to enneagram to get the full picture, and maybe I'm a 9 after all while the others are 2s. Or, it could be unrelated to type and I could simply be that strange all on my own.

    It's okay. I've already had an ISTJ try to continue a conversation from this thread on my wall, and I see a pattern here of the turn this thread appears to be taking, and I expressed my feelings about that. Don't take it personally, please don't think it's specifically you, you seem nice.

    My bark is much worse than my bite.
    Well in that case, I've just been over-dramatic. But in the future, I'll still just make a new thread.
    Last edited by Noon; 11-24-2010 at 04:08 AM. Reason: snipped

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noon View Post
    The oddest thing about it is that I feel very SJ, and I always come up as Stabilizer first and mostly Theorist second on temperament tests. On Keirsey's temperament sorter, I score either NF or SJ. I identify a lot with Si and Ti. At first I thought the issue was that I'm really ISTJ instead of ISFJ, but I fit more with the descriptions of real ISFJs that ISTJs know. SPs that I know tell me I am too cautious, past-oriented, or interested in order.

    I have no idea why I don't relate as well to the famous SJs and some others as type says I should. There are a few SJs here on this site that I identify with a lot more because they're not walking stereotypes, and that's a big relief. It could be that I have to go to enneagram to get the full picture, and maybe I'm a 9 after all while the others are 2s. Or, it could be unrelated to type and I could simply be that strange all on my own.
    What about literary ISFJs? Agatha Christie? Louisa May Alcott? William Wordsworth? Do you feel a sense of kinship to any of those famous ISFJs?

    Even Andy Warhol is speculated to have been ISFJ.

    It's probably also worth pointing out that the people who you feel criticized by are possibly STJs rather than SFJs, or that you may run closely on the S/N borderline, still being a Sensor, but close enough to Intuitive to relate to some NF traits, as well.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    It's possible you're right but I don't think so. There are certain things that seem to be common to intuitives. One of them is that they may not be in touch as much with every day practical matters as a sensor. Most are sensitive to a lifetime of direct or subtle criticism from others - head in the clouds, no common sense, not practical, not in touch with reality, you'd forget your head if it wasn't tacked onto you, over-analyzing things, etc. You see the things people describe here are things that are experienced by intuitives and it is a matter of degree.
    what mr highlander said and...

    - no one is saying sensors don't suffer from absentmindedness sometimes. some Ns are pointing out that there is a frequency/intensity of absentmindedness that impacts upon our daily lives so much so that we've consciously thought about how annoying it is.
    - if it wasn't affecting our lives very much would we bother giving it airtime? losing things is not a particularly sexy/interesting thing to discuss or think about.
    - no one said absentmindedness is the most significant defining characteristic of being an intuitive.

    this thread is for Ns to wax lyrical about annoying N stuff. little things, big things, whatever. so, make your own thread about how it sucks to be a sensor because you have to listen to Ns talk self-indulgent rubbish - or make yourself useful and go find my keys.

  10. #100
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strawberries View Post
    what mr highlander said and...

    - no one is saying sensors don't suffer from absentmindedness sometimes. some Ns are pointing out that there is a frequency/intensity of absentmindedness that impacts upon our daily lives so much so that we've consciously thought about how annoying it is.
    - if it wasn't affecting our lives very much would we bother giving it airtime? losing things is not a particularly sexy/interesting thing to discuss or think about.
    - no one said absentmindedness is the most significant defining characteristic of being an intuitive.

    this thread is for Ns to wax lyrical about annoying N stuff. little things, big things, whatever. so, make your own thread about how it sucks to be a sensor because you have to listen to Ns talk self-indulgent rubbish - or make yourself useful and go find my keys.
    I admire (what I suspect are) the N differences. Losing your keys isn't one of them though. That's all I'm saying (and I'll get out of the thread after this btw). I think you have far more to talk about than that (and not saying they haven't been spoken about in this thread, they have). I can identify with some of the positive traits too, but I'll chalk it up to being a weird sensor. Without sounding too self-denigrating, I suspect that most NFs and NTs are more brilliant and expansive than I am, for one. I got the absentmindedness, I got the utterly loathsome experience of being around flippant, "proudly" unimaginative people in the world, but I didn't get the Mensa IQ. If anything, I should be more pissed off.

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