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  1. #51
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    I have a better idea, I say let's give them Finland.
    Always with an eye on poor Finland, eh? ts ts ts
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Always with an eye on poor Finland, eh? ts ts ts
    Sure thing. And after that, we can see about further redrawing the map of Europe as follows.

  3. #53
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    No, let's make this conversation about Israel and Palestine. In reality, it's the exact same thing.

    You have a group of people with "ancestral" claim to lands, and then you have a group of people who physically live there and remember living there and have had grandparents who lived there, and while it may have been ill-got by their great-great-grandparents it doesn't change that they're living there legally now and know little else.

    Let's forget about Truth and Justice and Forgiveness and Restitution for a little. Has nobody thought of the sort of fuckfest this kind of government-mandated exile would cause? Considering the current political climate, this might cause another civil war. Is it right to cause massive disruption and possible civil war between 290 million people just so that 800,000 people can have "their" land back, without even any guarantee of raising their standards of living or quality of life at all?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  4. #54
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Sure thing. And after that, we can see about further redrawing the map of Europe as follows.
    I see you are a supporter of the Kaczyński brothers.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  5. #55
    Sniffles
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    I am Polish.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    This goes beyond legal issues, I merely objected to to your statement that there was an evolution of the government, since you seemed to imply that with that the responsability was gone. From an ethical perspective, I would say that you are partially responsible for the actions of others when you profit from them. Naturally entrepreneurship etc play an important role, but it would be naive to assume that the wealth of Europe and North America isn´t build on the blood, sweat and tears and poverty of others. We can afford to own a hundered pairs of sneakers because they are made in a part of the world where the girl who makes them is happy to get a bowl of rice for her days work. Etc.

    So if you belong to a part of a society that has it easier than another group, that doesn´t make you guilty in the sense that you made an active choice. But what chancelor Kohl once called "the blessing of late birth" doesn´t free you from inherited responsibility (not the same as guild by association). I was born in 1980, but my tax money pays restitution to former slave workers and suvivors of the shoa. And nobody in my generation (children of people born after the war!) would ever doubt that our, ahem, special history comes with the bruden of a special responsibility. That was 65 years ago. Haphazard mockingly tmentioned the Russian pogroms and the great diaspora. But not only is that idea at least part of the foundation of the state of Israel (I said part, and I don´t want to derail this thread into a discussion about Palestine!!!) but this leads to the question of when a people´s claims agains a state prescribe. 50 years? 65? 100? 150? That is no rhetorical question, I really am wondering. What about the people of Tibet? Should they just shut up and integrate into Chinese society? Yes, this sounds like comparing apples and pears, but I really am interested in the concept of perscription in this context.
    I see your point..
    Maybe my disagreements come from my perspective on my own life.
    I did not ask to be born. I am thankful that I was. I am well aware that I won the lottery being born in Canada.
    Every day I am thankful for what I have. I am not going to feel guilty for it.

    but it would be naive to assume that the wealth of Europe and North America isn´t build on the blood, sweat and tears and poverty of others.
    It would also be naive to assume that wealth of Europe and North America was not built on the blood sweat and tears of Europeans and North Americans. We all didn't sit on thrones with a harem of slaves doing our bidding.
    We did earn what what we have by working hard and by devising political systems that allowed common people to prosper.

    Slavery and conquering others for their land and wealth is older than Europe.

  7. #57
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    We are the inheritors of Imperialism

    We are the inheritors of the great and terrible British Empire

    We are the inheritors, the father of all bombs

    We are the inheritors of genocide

    We are the inheritors of your terror

    We carry the shame of the world on our backs.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  8. #58
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Hey, here's an idea!

    Why don't we just send the Native Americans to their true ancestral lands in Siberia? You think that'll make them happy?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Hey, here's an idea!

    Why don't we just send the Native Americans to their true ancestral lands in Siberia? You think that'll make them happy?
    I'm sure the Russians will prefer them over the Chinese.

  10. #60
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Why is it always always about the Lakota?

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