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  1. #31
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Nope, the US has no parts of history to be proud of at all. This is fact.
    No, that is called an opinion. And one that is ill-founded as well, I would say.

  2. #32
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    No, that is called an opinion. And one that is ill-founded as well, I would say.
    I was being facetious. And by facetious I mean politically correct. But also facetious.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Nope, the US has no parts of history to be proud of at all. This is fact.
    Is this some kind of a joke that is going over my head??

  4. #34
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    For some reason, I didn't think of that possibility. Sorry.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    Is this some kind of a joke that is going over my head??
    EDIT.. I see it did go over my head.. My bad

  6. #36
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    You are saying they are still suffering because of what happened 100 - 150 years ago. There is a side of me that agrees with you but I am not sure that I'm persuaded these people do not have personal responsibility for their own lives. The people who were wronged are dead. The people born over the last 100 years have had the freedom to do whatever they've wanted to.
    those people who live now doesent have the land that would have belonged to them by the agreements that were made back in the days. instead of government keeping their word, it divided the people in small groups. ever heard the saying; divided we fall? the government knew that they could get rid of these people if they divided them into small groups so that it would be easier for them to get rid of them. these new americans eliminated the buffalos so that the natives couldnt get much to eat, make clothes or built their houses. even today there isnt enough buffalos(if any) left in the wilderness so that the natives could get their living from them -> they are still effected what the government did. they need to live by the rules of government, even today -> government is still in control of their lives.(i think only exception is that some priests are allowed to take peyote cactus in their ceremonies, even tho its illegal in usa, but even they need to get a permission from the government, so government is in control over this also). government basically destroyed the life style, food source and stole the lands so much that those people are still effected by it today. this is why i think that those people should get some restitution today, even tho the horrible things happened(or more like started to happen) long time ago.

    but the bottom line is that government made a agreement about the land and stuff and they broke it. also its pretty funny that when a citizen commits a murder, it never gets old, but even if a government commits a genocide(murdered millions) that was illegal even by their own laws and that would be reprehensible today, the people who still suffer from this has no chance of getting any restitution. if the government went by their own laws, they would need to give back everything that was agreed in the first agreement made with the indians. imo that would be bit too much since there were much more indians back then, so government should see what land they gave per person back then and give the same amount of land per person now.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  7. #37
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Peyote is simply illegal t those who aren't Native American blood. It's the same with eagle feathers.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    those people who live now doesent have the land that would have belonged to them by the agreements that were made back in the days. instead of government keeping their word, it divided the people in small groups. ever heard the saying; divided we fall? the government knew that they could get rid of these people if they divided them into small groups so that it would be easier for them to get rid of them. these new americans eliminated the buffalos so that the natives couldnt get much to eat, make clothes or built their houses. even today there isnt enough buffalos(if any) left in the wilderness so that the natives could get their living from them -> they are still effected what the government did. they need to live by the rules of government, even today -> government is still in control of their lives.(i think only exception is that some priests are allowed to take peyote cactus in their ceremonies, even tho its illegal in usa, but even they need to get a permission from the government, so government is in control over this also). government basically destroyed the life style, food source and stole the lands so much that those people are still effected by it today. this is why i think that those people should get some restitution today, even tho the horrible things happened(or more like started to happen) long time ago.
    So let's say.. my great grandfather robbed a bank. Should I still be paying a debt to the bank? Should I serve time in jail ? Should my children?
    Should I be held accountable for what he did 150 years ago?

    Humans owe a debt to the future, not the past.
    We can't change history nor should we seek to comfort it.
    All we can do is learn from it, and that is how we repay it.

  9. #39
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Peyote is simply illegal t those who aren't Native American blood. It's the same with eagle feathers.
    document i watched some time ago said differently than you, and there was some native american priests speaking in it.
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  10. #40
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    So let's say.. my great grandfather robbed a bank. Should I still be paying a debt to the bank? Should I serve time in jail ? Should my children?
    Should I be held accountable for what he did 150 years ago?

    Humans owe a debt to the future, not the past.
    We can't change history nor should we seek to comfort it.
    All we can do is learn from it, and that is how we repay it.
    totally different thing. but yes, humans own their own dept, government should own their own dept too. government is still alive today, but your grandfather isnt.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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