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  1. #1
    Luctor et emergo Ezra's Avatar
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    Default Without...

    NFs, there would be a whole lot more war and hatred, and little soul in the world.

    SPs, pursuit of pleasure would miss out one of the most important aspects; material pleasure and happiness.

    NTs
    , scientific breakthroughs would be too rare, and wars would be conducted poorly.

    SJs
    , life would fly out of control as it would be moving and evolving too quickly, and we'd lose touch with the historical and hereditary aspects that matter most.

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    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    NFs, there would be a whole lot more war and hatred, and little soul in the world.

    SPs, pursuit of pleasure would miss out one of the most important aspects; material pleasure and happiness.

    NTs
    , scientific breakthroughs would be too rare, and wars would be conducted poorly.

    SJs
    , life would fly out of control as it would be moving and evolving too quickly, and we'd lose touch with the historical and hereditary aspects that matter most.
    Hate to say it, but it sounds like people probably wouldn't miss SP's all that much from your description... are you sure that's all they do? I actually talked about how things would be without NT's in another thread. To sum it up, I think it would be kind of like in the movie, "Idiocracy."

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    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Without SPs we would miss so much art. We would also have less technology or less functioning technology because a lot of NTs are really only interested in the idea. A lot of things things wouldn't get much farther than a working prototype. SPs make things happen irl.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Without SPs we would miss so much art.
    But art is sort of an aesthetic thing... and I've seen good art from other types as well.
    We would also have less technology or less functioning technology because a lot of NTs are really only interested in the idea. A lot of things things wouldn't get much farther than a working prototype. SPs make things happen irl.
    What about SJ's? I think they make things happen, and in a more orderly fashion, especially ESxJ's. SP's can be very useful and interesting individuals, but as a type, they don't really seem as integral or irreplaceable as the others. Sorry.

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    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    But art is sort of an aesthetic thing... and I've seen good art from other types as well.
    It happens sometimes, but physical expression is the turf of SPs. They are more able to bypass the conscious and just act and that can result in pretty amazing things.

    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    What about SJ's? I think they make things happen, and in a more orderly fashion, especially ESxJ's. SP's can be very useful and interesting individuals, but as a type, they don't really seem as integral or irreplaceable as the others. Sorry.
    SJs often do not see the value in innovation. SPs have a more open and opportunistic mindset that allows them to see the potential in an idea and think of ways to make it into reality. Going back to my point about art, they are also the most gifted at using their bodies, so they can be extremely gifted building ideas into useful things.

    SJs are really good at some things, but innovation is probably not top among them. It's not a matter of can they, but a matter of will they.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    SP's can be very useful and interesting individuals, but as a type, they don't really seem as integral or irreplaceable as the others. Sorry.
    Wow..interesting. I actually didn't think Ezra's SP definition was that negative (although for me personally, I'm not one to rely on or put much stock in material things - however, some of my 'happiest' moments might be when I'm just kicking back in an armchair, sipping tea. And that has an element of the material in it). I think a lot CAN be said for being able to derive pleasure in the moment, be more spontaneous and free, and to aim for happiness. I do find value and importance in all of those things, and do try to incorporate these things into my life - but in a balanced way.

    I guess I think it would be a pretty boring world without SP's to lighten things up and remind us of some equally important aspects of life.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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    Senior Member wedekit's Avatar
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    Hmmm... I have to agree with Athenian to a degree. I can't think of much that they contribute that is specific to their type.

    Maybe we learn how to live in the moment from SPs, and how to have spontaneous fun.

    I'm thinking of "True Colors" when I say this. Orange - SP, Green - NT, Gold - SJ, and Blue - NF. Oranges are supposedly natural troubleshooters, performers, and competitors. I guess you could say they concentrate on the physical part of our being. True Colors is a much more primitive personality typology system though.
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    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascademn View Post
    I think a lot CAN be said for being able to derive pleasure in the moment, be more spontaneous and free, and to aim for happiness. I do find value and importance in all of those things, and do try to incorporate these things into my life - but in a balanced way.

    I guess I think it would be a pretty boring world without SP's to lighten things up and remind us of some equally important aspects of life.
    The thing is, I think people do this naturally, and that it really doesn't take any skill. It's as simple as letting go. I've never seen anyone that was able to stay focused on work all the time, or that didn't take a break to collect themselves.

    Basically, it's not as unique or irreplaceable a skill as the ones the other types give. SJ's give stability and historical tradition, without which we would have a weaker society, or possibly none. NT's give innovation, without which we would have stagnation, decay, and banality in everything. NF's give meaning and compassion, without which we would only be driven by inertia and fear. SP's don't do anything particularly special as a type (although some individuals of them have been influential), but they're nice to have around.

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    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    The thing is, I think people do this naturally, and that it really doesn't take any skill. It's as simple as letting go. I've never seen anyone that was able to stay focused on work all the time, or that didn't take a break to collect themselves.

    Basically, it's not as unique or irreplaceable a skill as the ones the other types give. SJ's give stability and historical tradition, without which we would have a weaker society, or possibly none. NT's give innovation, without which we would have stagnation, decay, and banality in everything. NF's give meaning and compassion, without which we would only be driven by inertia and fear. SP's don't do anything particularly special as a type (although some individuals of them have been influential), but they're nice to have around.
    Ok, I get what you're saying. Perhaps the spontaneity/in the moment aspects are a bit more of a superficial and stereotype trait of SP's.

    I just did a quick google on SP temperament, and came up with some of the following that might be more unique to SP (as I confess I don't know any well in real life):

    ------------
    Their greatest strength is tactical variation. Their most developed intelligence operations is either expediting or improvising. Artisans take pride in their ability to be graceful, are confident in their ability to adapt, and respect their ability to be daring.
    ------------
    A "troubleshooter, negotiator, fire fighter" who "works via action with cleverness and timeliness," "learns through active involvement to meet current needs,"and is acknowledged in organizations for contributing "expeditious handling of the out-of-the ordinary and the unexpected."


    So....SP's....quick on their feet, trusted/respected in emergencies and unexpected situations (and assume a leadership role in these instances), and very adaptable? [I don't think any of these traits would come as 'naturally' to the other temperaments - NT's and NF's would probably spend too much time thinking about all of the possibilities and trying to find the 'optimal' one, etc, and wouldn't be able to act quickly enough, and SJ's might not be able to make the snap decisions quickly enough, especially if the decision involved going against procedure or protocol (?) - just guessing here]
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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    Without...

    ...SP: No hippies.

    ...SJ: No bosses.

    ...NF: No political correctness.

    ...NT: No Internet.

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