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  1. #11
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    I agree with the above that compassion is seperate from being secure. I don't believe in the death penalty either, but let's substitute the murderer for a mistreated dog that mauled a loved one to death. You can have compassion for even a dog as you put it down for general safety. People might be offended compairing humans to animals, but were're really not all that different. And the difference is even less in the conditions where crimes are comitted.

  2. #12
    Reptilian Snuggletron's Avatar
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    I've heard forgiveness isn't really for the person who committed the wrongdoing. This is what my mom says; my grandfather was murdered and she said to let go of the hate and anger she had to forgive the person responsible (who later re-married and then was caught plotting to kill her current husband, a family friend of ours nonetheless).

    Happiness isn't the responsibility of others, it comes from within and all that shit, you know.

  3. #13
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snuggletron View Post
    I've heard forgiveness isn't really for the person who committed the wrongdoing. This is what my mom says; my grandfather was murdered and she said to let go of the hate and anger she had to forgive the person responsible (who later re-married and then was caught plotting to kill her current husband, a family friend of ours nonetheless).

    Happiness isn't the responsibility of others, it comes from within and all that shit, you know.
    :nod: Exactly.

  4. #14
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Okay, here's my take on it. If you killed someone because you get off on it (serial killers), because they pissed you off or hurt your pride, or because you couldn't be with a person, so why should anyone else, etc, etc...sorry, you'd made your decision. Your actions have consequences. Someone is no longer on the planet because of YOUR actions and YOUR selfishness. Someone's mother/father/sister/brother is no longer around. People are devastated. A precious life has been taken out of the game through a decision you made. THEY (the victims) DO NOT GET A SECOND CHANCE. Since the victim does not get a second chance, I have a hard time giving a second chance to the person responsible. The way I see it, you made your choice about the rest of your life when you made the choice to kill someone. No one made you kill that person.

    Now, of course, not every case is the same, and in matters of true self-defense, etc., the same idea would not apply. There are always genuine exceptions.

    Once you've decided to murder someone, I'm no longer worried about your happiness and fulfillment in life.
    Something Witty

  5. #15
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by disregard View Post
    It's your own responsibility to make yourself happy, whether you're behind bars or not. No one "deserves" to be happy. Murderers are behind bars because they've proven themselves to be a threat to society. Remorse doesn't make them any less of a threat. They've already shown what they are capable of (or incapable of -- controlling themselves).
    I see an argument there to not give someone a second chance on most things.

    Quote Originally Posted by disregard View Post
    And who says you can't be happy behind bars? You can read, socialise, exercise, even work. You get taken care of. At least in the States. I don't know if it's possible to be happy in some other countries' prisons.
    I'm pretty sure most people behind bars aren't happy. Freedom is necessary for true happiness.

  6. #16
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    Okay, here's my take on it. If you killed someone because you get off on it (serial killers), because they pissed you off or hurt your pride, or because you couldn't be with a person, so why should anyone else, etc, etc...sorry, you'd made your decision. Your actions have consequences. Someone is no longer on the planet because of YOUR actions and YOUR selfishness. Someone's mother/father/sister/brother is no longer around. People are devastated. A precious life has been taken out of the game through a decision you made. THEY (the victims) DO NOT GET A SECOND CHANCE. Since the victim does not get a second chance, I have a hard time giving a second chance to the person responsible. The way I see it, you made your choice about the rest of your life when you made the choice to kill someone. No one made you kill that person.

    Now, of course, not every case is the same, and in matters of true self-defense, etc., the same idea would not apply. There are always genuine exceptions.

    Once you've decided to murder someone, I'm no longer worried about your happiness and fulfillment in life.
    I agree with that alll. My original, not explicitly stated point is that punishment and second chances are about justice and aren't within the realms of revenge and forgiveness. You can forgive and have compassion for someone you have no intention of giving another chance to.. or not. Though as S-tron mentioned, it'd be best if you could.

  7. #17
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlippoth View Post
    I agree with the above that compassion is seperate from being secure. I don't believe in the death penalty either, but let's substitute the murderer for a mistreated dog that mauled a loved one to death. You can have compassion for even a dog as you put it down for general safety. People might be offended compairing humans to animals, but were're really not all that different. And the difference is even less in the conditions where crimes are comitted.
    i'm not offended...i find it interesting...it's the first thing i've heard that made me see that even my opinion on the death penalty isn't quite set in stone...i think generally most humans can be confined and controlled but perhaps if there were some wild animal type person that couldn't be...maybe it would make sense to put them down...but it's about protection in that case and not vengeance.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  8. #18
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    No one (save for the victim's family) is gonna admit they would execute someone out of vengeance anyway.

    I posted this thread to question myself as to where people draw the line to what is forgivable VS non-forgivable.

  9. #19
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moiety View Post
    I see an argument there to not give someone a second chance on most things.



    I'm pretty sure most people behind bars aren't happy. Freedom is necessary for true happiness.
    Who has total freedom? Almost everyone has to do things they don't want to do and be places they don't want to be to survive.

  10. #20
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    i'm not offended...i find it interesting...it's the first thing i've heard that made me see that even my opinion on the death penalty isn't quite set in stone...i think generally most humans can be confined and controlled but perhaps if there were some wild animal type person that couldn't be...maybe it would make sense to put them down...but it's about protection in that case and not vengeance.
    Yeah, my main problem with the death penalty is Bureaucracy + Life Taking, scary combination. Maybe like you mentioned, specific scenarios. In very small societies with limited resources, imprisonment might just not be an option.

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