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  1. #31
    Highly Hollow Wandering's Avatar
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    Here is one suggestion - but it implies quite a bit of police work from the madmins, and of course a lot of self-policing from the members.

    1- Determine which areas are "no fluff allowed", "fluff allowed but keep it low" and "fluff welcome"

    2- Post a visible warning somewhere around each area as to which level of fluff will be tolerated.

    3- Enforce ruthlessly. Remove fluff posts from "no fluff allowed" zones, and post madmin warnings (in red for example) when the tolerated level of fluff is being reached in a "fluff allowed" zone (with or without a warning that any further fluff will be removed).

    *Important* : each temperament's members should be the ones deciding what level of fluff will be accepted in their house. I suspect that, for example, the NFs would welcome fluff, while the NTs might prefer to keep their house a fluff-free zone (and maybe the SPs and SJs would like to go for something in-between?)

    Also: posters creating a new thread could be allowed to set the tone for their thread, by asking in the opening post that it be "no fluff please" or "anything goes", no matter what area it happens to be posted in (ie for example a "no fluff please" thread posted in a "fluff accepted" area would still be treated as a "no fluff" thread and any fluff would be automatically removed). This would allow, in that example, posters who don't like fluff but want to ask a question that belongs most properly in a "fluff accepted" zone to post their question while not having to fear their thread getting swamped with fluff beyond their capacity to deal with it.

  2. #32
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Ya rly Wandering. I should've voted you for "member who should be a mod/admin"! That was all very well said!

    But as you say, it would require a lot of effort from the madmins... which since they don't get paid, I'm not sure is really fair to expect...
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  3. #33
    Highly Hollow Wandering's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Ya rly Wandering. I should've voted you for "member who should be a mod/admin"!
    Ca va pas, non !? I'd DIE as a mod/admin, I'm way too much of a softy for that kind of role Or inversely I can become totally irrational if someone irritates me, in which case I definitely shouldn't be entrusted with mod/admin powers :rolli:

    That was all very well said!
    Quite frankly, I simply looked at how things were working on another forum I used to participate on, and I extracted the principles that could be useful here.

    But as you say, it would require a lot of effort from the madmins... which since they don't get paid, I'm not sure is really fair to expect...
    Yeah, I know. Though if the members self-police themselves enough, then such a method may in fact end up relieving stress from the madmins, because the rules are clear. Like, if someone reports to them a fluff post in a no-fluff zone, then there is no political game to be played: they go there, and they remove the post, with a note saying "no fluff please", and that's it. Easier than trying to satisfy everyone while not stepping on anyone's toes. But it can and does look heavy-handed at times, which may not be the tone we want for this forum, even in the serious zones...

    I really gotta stop seeing all sides at once

  4. #34
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Sorry Geoff but I've gotta disagree with you - I've lived in England most of my life and in English pubs (the equivalent to the Bonfire here, maybe?) you get a lot more people having fluffy conversations, getting drunk and being silly, than you do sitting in the corner and discussing astro-physics. I don't know which town you live in, but most English town centres these days are full of vomiting, flirting, binge-drinking socialites after about 9pm, with all local police power being concentrated on limiting the damage done by so many people "celebrating themselves"
    I don't remember saying I was basing anything on what teenagers get up to in city centres on a sat night, non?

    I also think you might want to find another pub to drink in

    -Geoff

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering View Post
    Ca va pas, non !? I'd DIE as a mod/admin, I'm way too much of a softy for that kind of role Or inversely I can become totally irrational if someone irritates me, in which case I definitely shouldn't be entrusted with mod/admin powers :rolli:
    Same here, which is why I nearly did die - of laughter - when I saw I won that category!! lol

    Yeah, I know. Though if the members self-police themselves enough, then such a method may in fact end up relieving stress from the madmins, because the rules are clear.
    yes, I called for that once before, saying that the rules are too vague and open to interpretation, and everyone thinks their interpretation is 'right' or definitive, though they're all different... so you get threads like this all the darn time because some people read it as "fluff is welcome and fine" whilst others read it as "fluff is tolerable in small amounts, in appropriate places only!" and shades in between. Same goes for the rep system - so open to interpretation with no fixed hard and fast (or enforced) rules about its use, so a) I don't know where anyone gets off complaining about these things not being used according to their non-officially-sanctioned definition and b) there is bound to be differences in usage and therefore, complaints from those who are particularly sure that their interpretation is better.

    But when I mentioned that before, I got told I hate democracy and was dismissed out of hand. *shrug* I mean, that might be true, but I still had a point, methinks.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    I don't remember saying I was basing anything on what teenagers get up to in city centres on a sat night, non?

    I also think you might want to find another pub to drink in

    -Geoff
    Teenagers?!

    Seriously dude, walk up and down your high street tonight.

    Used to be teenagers when I was a teenager, but these days it's anything up to and even over 40... cos it's that generation of teenagers that didn't really grow up... lol

    Anyway, that's beside the point. My point was that British culture nowadays seems to be very much about "celebrating yourself" - buy yourself stuff, do what you want, do what you feel, do what makes you happy, you have a RIGHT to this, a RIGHT to that, don't let anyone call you on responsibilities, don't let them rain on your parade. Just go out and get blathered, yay!! You deserve it!!
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  7. #37
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Hello all,
    Hello.
    All, in all, it just seems the character is changing...
    "People don't resist change. They resist being changed!" Change is inevitable Geoff. Maybe J's love it and P's not so much?
    perhaps I am just turning into an old grumpy cynic..
    Totally.
    maybe it is even a culture thing - we English don't like to celebrate ourselves to such an extent, and prefer an element of distance, I suspect..
    Uh, no. It's you. Good day sir!
    This is not me writing in any "official" capability, just personal opinion.
    Is this you preempting any attacks? Good thinking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    I find your enthusiasm towards a cultivating a level playing field refreshing. I think this mantra is especially useful when considering newer members.

    Yet, I suspect the establishment of a "quo" (such that an online forum permits) is less a matter of choice and more one of gradual inevitability. Those who post more tend to receive a greater distribution of "positive" accolades - the reputation element simply adds physical distinction to this otherwise invisible (yet ubiquitous, I'd wager) social tendency within people.

    This isn't to suggest that any direct merit be attached to winners of popularity contests; INTPc lets us highlight our names. I assure you that I've little vanity stapled to this allowance.

    Your insight is centered on creating an even-handed forum for everyone. Thank you for your precision.
    Blah, blah,blah. You're a huge lover of fluff and you know it.
    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    As a person who has deep interest in group dynamics, I've never thought it was a good idea for a group to be in complete harmony, kind of like the Tower of Babel. Things start to become dangerous if everyone agrees and everyone loves each other. People stop thinking for themselves and are afraid to dissent.
    Bravo. I mean you are so spot on there. Can you imagine if all the members were exactly the same? BlueWing Shake it up a little, there's plenty for everyone here.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  8. #38
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    Hello.
    "People don't resist change. They resist being changed!" Change is inevitable Geoff. Maybe J's love it and P's not so much?Totally. Uh, no. It's you. Good day sir!
    Is this you preempting any attacks? Good thinking.
    Blah, blah,blah. You're a huge lover of fluff and you know it.
    Bravo. I mean you are so spot on there. Can you imagine if all the members were exactly the same? BlueWing Shake it up a little, there's plenty for everyone here.
    I was kind of hoping we could have a reasoned discussion about the direction of the forum... there have been some constructive suggestions so far. You know, rather than just throwing stuff around.

    It's quite amusing.. you know about J's liking change more than P's... haha. But, well, is it wrong to want to discuss change? or should we just embrace it and be damned the consequences. I like what this place is becoming, trust me, I do... and previous experience has shown me what kills these sort of forums - either an excess of fluffiness or an over serious technical nature. Both are probably an issue...

    My opening post wasn't an attack on you personally by the way- I specifically wanted to address the direction of the forum and how to make it work well for all of us. Not to stop people being light hearted, or serious, but to keep these areas a little bit clearer when of late one seems to be overwhelming the other.

    I did not, of course, make a point of saying this was personal opinion to avoid attacks (what?) - it was because as a moderator I wanted no suggestion I was speaking on behalf of da bosses.

    I like the idea of giving thread owners the power to mark threads as fluff welcomed, fluff free, or moderately fluff ok - perhaps with a less controversial name - banter perhaps.

    What say you, good idea?

    -Geoff

  9. #39
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Yeah Geoff, that's a great idea. Sorry I might've sounded a bit sharper than I meant to, I've been attacked this evening with inexplicable vehemence over my disuse of paper towels... it put me on edge a bit!
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  10. #40
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    I was kind of hoping we could have a reasoned discussion about the direction of the forum... there have been some constructive suggestions so far. You know, rather than just throwing stuff around.

    It's quite amusing.. you know about J's liking change more than P's... haha. But, well, is it wrong to want to discuss change? or should we just embrace it and be damned the consequences. I like what this place is becoming, trust me, I do... and previous experience has shown me what kills these sort of forums - either an excess of fluffiness or an over serious technical nature. Both are probably an issue...

    My opening post wasn't an attack on you personally by the way- I specifically wanted to address the direction of the forum and how to make it work well for all of us. Not to stop people being light hearted, or serious, but to keep these areas a little bit clearer when of late one seems to be overwhelming the other.

    I did not, of course, make a point of saying this was personal opinion to avoid attacks (what?) - it was because as a moderator I wanted no suggestion I was speaking on behalf of da bosses.


    -Geoff
    lol So you do have a sense of humor? Without hearing your tone I can't really tell. I didn't take it as a personal attack, but I suppose I am jaded with the fluff topic.
    I like the idea of giving thread owners the power to mark threads as fluff welcomed, fluff free, or moderately fluff ok - perhaps with a less controversial name - banter perhaps.

    What say you, good idea?
    Sort of like labeling threads? If so, I don't like that idea but I am one person.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

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