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  1. #11
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by human101 View Post
    i read that 130-160 do well without much effort but 180+ is where real problems with underachievement come
    180+? you know that's like 1/200000...

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The average IQ for university students is 120. So I find it hard to think of 130 as gifted. I think this is part of the solipsistic myth that we are all gifted.
    Average IQ for uni. students is 120???????? I find that quite hard to believe. What's the SD, do you know? It has to be much less than 15 (the SD for the normal pop.)

    130 is 97.7th percentile. That's about 1/50. Why not call that gifted?

    But the fact is that the gifted are different. They are not only different in intelligence but also different emotionally.

    In particular the gifted are described as, "over excitable", (OE).

    Interestingly this is a pejorative phrase, and perhaps, "highly excitable", or "labile", or " freely flowing emotionally", might be better and more accurate.

    And in my opinion it is this marked emotional difference, that is rejected by the normal.

    The gifted are abnormal emotionally and naturally this is not understood by the normal.

    And of course the normal think everyone should be like themselves. And emotion being invisible, this baffles the normal. And so the normal reject free flowing emotion.

    This is doubly tragic for not only are the gifted socially rejected but flow is also rejected.

    And flow is the hallmark of creativity.

    And so we find it no surprise that the normal reject creativity. And this impoverishes us all.
    Why do you think the emotions of the gifted are so different? It's all the same shit in terms of neurochemistry. There are angry smart people, nice smart people, idealistic smart people, neurotic smart people, calm smart people, etc.

    They probably have quite different conscious narratives for emotions, but that's just surface-level. They still get mad for the same reasons as everyone else, etc.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The average IQ for university students is 120. So I find it hard to think of 130 as gifted. I think this is part of the solipsistic myth that we are all gifted.

    But the fact is that the gifted are different. They are not only different in intelligence but also different emotionally.

    In particular the gifted are described as, "over excitable", (OE).

    Interestingly this is a pejorative phrase, and perhaps, "highly excitable", or "labile", or " freely flowing emotionally", might be better and more accurate.

    And in my opinion it is this marked emotional difference, that is rejected by the normal.

    The gifted are abnormal emotionally and naturally this is not understood by the normal.

    And of course the normal think everyone should be like themselves. And emotion being invisible, this baffles the normal. And so the normal reject free flowing emotion.

    This is doubly tragic for not only are the gifted socially rejected but flow is also rejected.

    And flow is the hallmark of creativity.

    And so we find it no surprise that the normal reject creativity. And this impoverishes us all.
    Where did you get the statistic? One source I read was that the average college graduate's IQ may be declining over the years. The one source said it might be like 105 (I don't know how reliable it is) and the average PhD was about like 125.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The average IQ for university students is 120. So I find it hard to think of 130 as gifted. I think this is part of the solipsistic myth that we are all gifted.

    But the fact is that the gifted are different. They are not only different in intelligence but also different emotionally.

    In particular the gifted are described as, "over excitable", (OE).

    Interestingly this is a pejorative phrase, and perhaps, "highly excitable", or "labile", or " freely flowing emotionally", might be better and more accurate.

    And in my opinion it is this marked emotional difference, that is rejected by the normal.

    The gifted are abnormal emotionally and naturally this is not understood by the normal.

    And of course the normal think everyone should be like themselves. And emotion being invisible, this baffles the normal. And so the normal reject free flowing emotion.

    This is doubly tragic for not only are the gifted socially rejected but flow is also rejected.

    And flow is the hallmark of creativity.

    And so we find it no surprise that the normal reject creativity. And this impoverishes us all.
    Where did you get the statistic? One source I read was that the average college graduate's IQ may be declining over the years. The one source said it might be like 105 (I don't know how reliable it is) and the average PhD was about like 125.

  4. #14
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    Where did you get the statistic? One source I read was that the average college graduate's IQ may be declining over the years. The one source said it might be like 105 (I don't know how reliable it is) and the average PhD was about like 125.
    That sounds more reasonable. I've interacted with a shitload of university students, and there's no way their average IQ is 120. Even at UCB, supposedly the "best public university in the world" (according to them at least), I really doubt the average is 120.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Why do you think the emotions of the gifted are so different?
    This is a good question. We know that the gifted are OE (over excitable) empirically. Why, I don't know.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    Where did you get the statistic? One source I read was that the average college graduate's IQ may be declining over the years. The one source said it might be like 105 (I don't know how reliable it is) and the average PhD was about like 125.
    The average IQ for everyone is 100 so average university students are bound to be higher. However with the advent of mass universities, the average uni IQ has fallen.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    This is a good question. We know that the gifted are OE (over excitable) empirically. Why, I don't know.
    If you're subscribing to Dabrowski's theory, his definition of overexcitability describes intensities, rather than overexcitability which is commonly viewed as emotionally reactive.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Blown Ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    ^ Yeah, that's what I thought. In layman's terms it measures "book smarts".
    Well, that's a bit of a oversimplification. Raw intelligence is impossible to measure with accuracy. It would be like lab rats or monkeys running the tests that we do on them themselves: never totally objective even at best.

    The problem with IQ tests actually has nothing to do with "book smarts" vs "street smarts", because both of those terms are actually incorrect terms in the sense that they're correlating knowledge with brain function (even though knowledge is often a byproduct of intelligence). However, it's close, because it's this same rote knowledge variable which makes IQ tests inaccurate. I'll explain...

    For any given question in an IQ test there are a number of variables which will influence one person's ability to answer compared to another. One of the biggest is the experiences that person's mind has had which will strengthen certain neurological pathways and make it easier to answer number patterns, word puzzles, etc.

    So ultimately the only thing an IQ test result can tell you is your ability to perform that particular IQ test. Getting an accurate index of comparison for actual raw intelligence/processing is impossible because you'd need two people who have the exact "nurture" circumstances in order to eliminate that and determine which is smarter by nature.


    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And flow is the hallmark of creativity.

    And so we find it no surprise that the normal reject creativity. And this impoverishes us all.
    I disagree that responsiveness is a mark of intelligence. Quality over quantity often requires alterations and breaks from what we otherwise feel is our natural flow of creativity.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    180+? you know that's like 1/200,000...
    Yes, we have few active members so the chances of any one of us being abnormal (gifted) or subnormal (retarded) is about zero.

    Yet we use 'retard' as a term of abuse, just as 'over-excitable' is pejorative.

    The chances are, we are all normal, so no wonder we socially exclude the subnormal and the abnormal, 'cause we can.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Why does Victor believe in IQ tests but not in the MBTI?

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