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  1. #1
    Senior Member WildCard's Avatar
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    Default Explain something please...

    Something I've noticed, and have become rather irritated with. I understand that there is no beating sterotypes.

    So I figured I'd ask the opinion of people who might be considered "normal" for their gender. Just so everyone knows I'm not just pulling on yall's leg, I'm completely serious.

    For a girl to be a tomboy, it seems to be acceptable by society's norms until the age of fourteen or so. Then, suddenly, if she continues wearing her style of clothing, she becomes a "raging bull dyke".

    I encountered this roughly around 8th grade. I'm proud to say I was stubborn, and refused to give in to peer pressure. Was my life sucky at times? Of course, but that's a given in life.

    Most of you know my occupation, so I won't beat a dead horse. Still, when I come home and wear my t-shirts, jeans, and boots people look at me like I've grown a third-eye. Or, God forbid, I show up at home in my BDUs (Highly unlikely due to base regulations). Things are slightly better with my dress uniform, but that's because I wear a skirt.

    So tell me. Why do many people confuse tomboys with dykes? And if there's a way to tell (aside from the obvious) them apart.

    What hurt my the most is that I heard my own father using such generalizations about a woman he worked with until he discovered that she served in the Marine Corp. for forty years.
    Anything that you haven't fought for isn't going to be appreciated. It takes blood, sweat, and a large amount of tears before you appreciate what you have.

  2. #2
    Senior Member burymecloser's Avatar
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    I think the prevalence (and widespread acceptance) of sexism and homophobia are fully sufficient to explain this.

  3. #3
    Symbolic Herald Vasilisa's Avatar
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    I'm sorry people are making assumptions like that about you, WildCard, and mistreating you as a result. You might want to read this thread, too. Its not just NF females in traditionally masculine occupations that get that attitude. Hope it helps a little.

  4. #4
    Patron Saint Of Smileys Gloriana's Avatar
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    I hit up on this issue a little on the thread I started here:

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ad-female.html

    Here's my take on it.

    I see a lot of people and draw all sorts of conclusions and I make snap judgments like anyone else. I might wonder about certain things. I don't think trying to 'erase' that tendency from the human mind works, I do think it serves a purpose in a lot of respects.

    However, I think the dumbest motherf***ers out there are the ones who have never been taught to investigate further, to challenge their perceptions and first impressions, to gather more information before jumping to conclusions.

    Fair enough, in a lot of situations we do not have time to think further and take things apart that way. In a lot of cases it doesn't matter because not everything requires pondering.

    Still, I think when it comes to passing really harsh judgments or jumping to conclusion about someone's very nature or character, it's better to keep an open mind. In truth, I've just decided labeling and grouping folks together is just futile. I've never met two people within a 'group' that are alike (and this goes the same for our MBTI groups on this very site too).

    Not all women who have short hair and wear clothing that has been labeled as 'men's' are lesbians EVEN IF a large percentage of lesbians choose to dress like this. I don't think there is anything wrong with lending weight to probabilities and percentages - I just think it's stupid to draw a conclusion based on probabilities without examining the facts about a person on an individual basis.

    I just think there are a lot of people that are lazy and don't bother. They want people and life to be easy so they cling to belief in stereotypes and make their snap judgments into instant convictions.
    "Nobody in life gets exactly what they thought they were going to get, but if you work really hard, and you're kind, amazing things will happen. I'm telling you...amazing things will happen" --Conan O'Brien

  5. #5
    facettes de la petite mor Words of Ivory's Avatar
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    The simple and honest answer?

    Because most people are stupid and ignorant.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Life calls out the meaning of pure jubilance,
    if you'll only take the time to hear it."
    ~ Words of Ivory ~

  6. #6
    Patron Saint Of Smileys Gloriana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Words of Ivory View Post
    The simple and honest answer?

    Because most people are stupid and ignorant.
    I heart you.
    "Nobody in life gets exactly what they thought they were going to get, but if you work really hard, and you're kind, amazing things will happen. I'm telling you...amazing things will happen" --Conan O'Brien

  7. #7
    facettes de la petite mor Words of Ivory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gloriana View Post
    I heart you.
    I heart you too.

    It really is that simple though. You can analyse it all you want, trying to figure out why people think the way they do, but at the end of the day that's really all it comes down too. Basic, blind ignorance.

    Lots and lots of people are ignorant, and they like it that way. Most people love to pre-judge things (as the OPs father showed perfectly), which is just one of the unfortunate side-effects of that oh-so-human condition known as the "ego".

    Here in Ireland, when I was in school (over 15 years ago now) people were making a big deal because girls were expected to wear skirts as part of their school uniforms. Eventually it was passed that they could choose between school pants and skirts as they saw fit.

    Can you guess what happened? The skirts practically died out over-night.

    Do people in this day and age actually give a damn if a woman wears jeans and t-shirts and doesn't look like subservient eye-candy 24/7? Really? If they do, I find that... mind boggling.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Life calls out the meaning of pure jubilance,
    if you'll only take the time to hear it."
    ~ Words of Ivory ~

  8. #8
    Patron Saint Of Smileys Gloriana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Words of Ivory View Post

    Do people in this day and age actually give a damn if a woman wears jeans and t-shirts? If they do, I find that... mind boggling.
    You'd be surprised at some rural areas of the United States. There are still places where it's still frowned upon for women to wear pants. Some of it is directly related to odd religious sects, some just comes from areas that take the word 'conservative' very seriously and just want to keep things the same as they were back in whatever time period they consider 'the golden age' (for some this is turn of the century, for some it is the 50s, etc.).
    "Nobody in life gets exactly what they thought they were going to get, but if you work really hard, and you're kind, amazing things will happen. I'm telling you...amazing things will happen" --Conan O'Brien

  9. #9
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    The story in the OP is sad but not universally true.

    I've been a tomboy all my life. Skirts? Fashion?? I'm a jeans and T-shirt type girl. Only on special occasions, I'd go for the pretty girl mode and even then... The part of the clothes shopping for my wedding which I had under control took +/- one hour. (There was a part I sadly didn't have under control.)

    Nobody ever called me a dyke. They called me a great many things. I've been bullied because of a lot of reasons, but not with the tomboy/dyke theme. I was a cold-hearted streber.

    The only reaction to my clothes comes from my mother. "Isn't it about time you'll dress as a woman? You're not a girl any more." Probably feeded by the fear I wouldn't get a job. I had to tell her I was teaching at a technical high school and everybody wore jeans and T-shirt. The strange part is, since I do my clothes shopping alone, I'm much more efficient on this and my mother approves of everything I buy! I don't understand, but I'm not complaining.
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

  10. #10
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by burymecloser View Post
    I think the prevalence (and widespread acceptance) of sexism and homophobia are fully sufficient to explain this.
    Yes, I agree.

    I think that these opinions stem from social norms that lack sufficient reasoning.

    But... from a psychological point of view, I think that clothes that detract from the "vase" like frame that is normally associated with women may be deemed masculine. Most women, if they wear jeans or casual attire, wear things that are more skin tight to draw attention to themselves as women.

    If the clothes are more baggy, then you subliminally drop off the radar as a "woman" and into a category that is more androgynous.

    I'm sorry that people are treating you that way WildCard. I think you may find some affiliation with kyuui here on the forum, as she was/is also in the military and she finds it frustrating when people force her into some unwarranted stereotype.

    As a young man, I can completely understand why a woman would wear a T shirt and pants/jeans. Dresses and other frivolous clothes are often impractical for the demands of daily living. In fact, I prefer it when women wear pants because it offers them more leverage to do things with me.

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