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  1. #71
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Generally agreed. I think it's mostly harmless if clearly-not-for-me (or, probably, any straight male or gay female), much like Transformers. The only legitimate concern I have is the age group that reads it (many of them very young girls) and the messages they may take from it (Mayer's original abstinance-only stance, or the glorification of what may be emotionally abusive or controlling relationships). Perhaps this concern is tantamount to "video games make kids violent," (an argument which is nonsense based on personal experience with both a deceased violent offender who has become fairly famous and dozens and dozens of unknown non-violent people) which I hope is true, though kids don't get as emotional or defensive about GTA IV as I've seen some get about Twilight.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  2. #72
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    The only legitimate concern I have is the age group that reads it (many of them very young girls) and the messages they may take from it (Mayer's original abstinance-only stance, or the glorification of what may be emotionally abusive or controlling relationships).
    I already hear the ZPowers of the 18th century complaining about how Werther turns teens to suicidal vagabonds
    No, seriously, these 'dangers' are waay over-emphasized. Healthy individuals, no matter what age are able to distinguish romantic fictions from real life. And if they're not, there's something wrong with them, and it can be triggered by virtually anything, even a cookbook.

  3. #73
    THIS bitch stringstheory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    I already hear the ZPowers of the 18th century complaining about how Werther turns teens to suicidal vagabonds
    No, seriously, these 'dangers' are waay over-emphasized. Healthy individuals, no matter what age are able to distinguish romantic fictions from real life. And if they're not, there's something wrong with them, and it can be triggered by virtually anything, even a cookbook.
    i dunno, i think you're really underestimating the power of mass media to influence and reinforce all kinds of ideas, in this case about love and romance. The ideas are introduced at a young age, and continue to be reinforced as the individual gets older. Obviously the ideas don't ring with everyone but studies have shown a correlation between exposure to pop romantic media and a persons unrealistic relationship and love expectations, i see no reason for a hyped up book to do the same, especially if younger fans are a big target demographic. What's "wrong" with them is the abundance of that influence.

    BBC NEWS | UK | Scotland | Edinburgh, East and Fife | Rom-coms 'spoil your love life'
    Sex, Love & Romance in the Mass Media
    Is life just a romantic novel? the relationship between attitudes about intimate relationships and the popular media - The American Journal of Family Therapy

    Also the bold looks dangerously close to a No true Scotsman fallacy to me. No true Scotsman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  4. #74
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    I'm sorry, I have neither time nor energy to formulate a coherent response in english atm. I'll try to get back at this.

  5. #75
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    No problem...i'm actually moving so i SHOULDN'T really be on here right now anyway.....but here i am
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  6. #76
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    I already hear the ZPowers of the 18th century complaining about how Werther turns teens to suicidal vagabonds
    In the 18th century it wasn't so much Werther as it was all that infernal hoop-pushing that the children loved so! Didn't they see how easily it could distract a horse and derail an entire carriage of well-to-do lords and ladies?
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  7. #77
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    Generally agreed. I think it's mostly harmless if clearly-not-for-me (or, probably, any straight male or gay female), much like Transformers. The only legitimate concern I have is the age group that reads it (many of them very young girls) and the messages they may take from it (Mayer's original abstinance-only stance, or the glorification of what may be emotionally abusive or controlling relationships). Perhaps this concern is tantamount to "video games make kids violent," (an argument which is nonsense based on personal experience with both a deceased violent offender who has become fairly famous and dozens and dozens of unknown non-violent people) which I hope is true, though kids don't get as emotional or defensive about GTA IV as I've seen some get about Twilight.
    I haven't even read this entire post, but I will say this much, if very young girls are reading of their own volition, then...

    FUCKIN' GREAT!!!



    I was a late bloomer regarding reading for pleasure.

    I always read, and prior to 13, I would read books I had to read for school, and comic books/graphic novels, as well as R. L. Stein books, was really into those when I was 9-10. :/

    But, I became an AVID reader summer before 9th grade, and you know what broke my proverbial cherry?

    Paradise (1991)

    by...

    Judith McNaught - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    That summer I must have read over 100 romance novels.

    And, guess what my INTP father thought about this...

    He APPROVED!!!

    Why, you might ask?

    Because, I was reading, reading, reading.

    My voracious appetite for books despite their content was, in his opinion, a categorically good thing.

    And, my vocabulary, which was alway pretty damn good, EXPLODED after this genesis, and then, I didn't only read romance novels, I eventually read and LOVED Shakespeare, various classics, and to this day, I am still an avid reader. Fiction, nonfiction, you name it.

    For youngsters, I always suggest this, read what you *like*, and once they start realizing that reading can be an enjoyable experience, reading more difficult material won't be so difficult.

    I have tutored and T.A.d for many LAUSD students, and they do NOT READ.

    :sad:

    They're hardly literate, its so fucking sad!!!

    So, I don't CARE WHAT THEY'RE READING AS LONG AS THEY'RE FUCKING READING!!!

    The end.



    Wait.

    Also, reading leads to critical thinking, it does, it stimulates your imagination, your ability to think of abstract things, reading is great on so many levels.

    If I hypothetically had a 8-whatever age daughter and she was reading the Twilight saga, I'd be down, and proud of the fact that she's reading because she *wants to*


    Also, um, some people mentioned fear about the messages these books/movies send to young girls...



    ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!?!?


    I don't even know what to say about this.

    First of all, most people are FOLLOWERS, and sadly, most people DON'T THINK FOR THEMSELVES. :sad: But, usually these people don't tend to be readers. :/

    And...

    I ASSURE YOU, MOST LIKELY MORE THAN HALF OF THE TWILIGHT BOOKS THAT HAVE BEEN PURCHASED HAVE ACTUALLY NOT BEEN READ.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

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  8. #78
    meinmeinmein! mmhmm's Avatar
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    a friend confided in me how he had fantasies
    of "vampire, gothic sex". then he told me how
    he liked being peed on.

    i was really hoping he'd go into the awesomeness
    of period sex. but no.
    every normal man must be tempted, at times,
    to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag,
    and begin slitting throats.
    h.l. mencken

  9. #79
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmhmm View Post
    a friend confided in me how he had fantasies
    of "vampire, gothic sex". then he told me how
    he liked being peed on.

    i was really hoping he'd go into the awesomeness
    of period sex. but no.
    I knew a guy who wanted me to pee on him, apparently this is a relatively common fetish, alas, I was not down, nor would I ever be, but that's just me.



    I don't think it's weird, it's just not my personal cup of pee.

    I've never met anybody who was into vampire, gothic sex, although I know of goths and necros, and those who are really into vampirism.

    i was really hoping he'd go into the awesomeness
    of period sex. but no.
    I've NEVER been with a guy who was NOT down for having sex with me whilst I was on my period, EVER.

    This is where I become a little judgmental, it's understandable if the WOMAN feels uncomfortable with it, and it is also understandable if an 18-21 year old kid/guy is "grossed out" by it, but, I'm sorry, otherwise...

    LAME!!!

    LAME!!!

    LAME!!!

    I think when a man and a woman are in an intimate relationship that they should be both quite comfortable with each other's bodily secretions/fluids.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  10. #80
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    No, seriously, these 'dangers' are waay over-emphasized. Healthy individuals, no matter what age are able to distinguish romantic fictions from real life. And if they're not, there's something wrong with them, and it can be triggered by virtually anything, even a cookbook.
    Once again, GREAT POST!!!!

    There's a name for those who cannot distinguish reality from non-reality, and it's called BEING DELUSIONAL.

    Delusional people are just that, delusional, they are the ones with the problem, a really sad one, too.

    But, seriously, though many of us are slightly delusional in some regard, most human beings don't suffer from major delusions, (fuck, or do they ).

    Anyhow, people are people, and followers are followers, and intelligent people are intelligent people, and sociopaths are sociopaths.

    The bell curve, m'dear, but, all in all, most people are AVERAGE.

    Don't censor information, let us, as individuals navigate through the plethora of Stuff and decide for ourselves, what is bullshit, and what is not, what we like, and what we don't, what it true, and what is false.

    I don't want Your "protection", it's patronizing, and this type of "protection" can and will lead to disastrous things, we grow by experience, by observation, by critical thinking, DON'T STIFLE OR FUCK WITH THE INFORMATION, LET IT BE.

    I and everyone else has the choice to believe in something, however true, or false.

    God, I lost my train of thought.

    Oh yeah, Twilight being dangerous?!!!?

    ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!!!


    NO, SERIOUSLY, ARE YOU?

    (The above questions are obviously not posed for/towards Litvyak)

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

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