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  1. #71
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    True, Tolkein was not into allegory as CS Lewis was. Still, LOTR is filled with Catholic themes. Tolkein certainly borrows much from the pagan traditions, but views them through a Catholic prism.
    Really? Sure he has a battle between good and evil. A pantheon of gods and spirits both good and bad.

    But where is hell? where is original sin? where is the pope?

    I think it's stretching it to have LOTR "filled with catholic themes"

  2. #72
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    I think it's stretching it to have LOTR "filled with catholic themes"
    No, not in the least. "Themes" doesn't mean direct portrayal of real-life entities.

  3. #73
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    No, not in the least. "Themes" doesn't mean direct portrayal of real-life entities.
    Ok.. well let me try again. What's "catholic" about his themes that wouldn't be as easily found in say the Norse mythology (that was also a sorta inspiration through the likes of Beowulf)

  4. #74
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    What's "catholic" about his themes that wouldn't be as easily found in say the Norse mythology (that was also a sorta inspiration through the likes of Beowulf)
    Beowulf pretty much is a Christianized version of Norse mythology. Our main source for Norse mythology, the Poetic Edda, was recorded by Christian monks. One can go further and state that many key elements of Norse mythology are the result of Christian influence: such as the sacrifice of Wotan, Valhalla, and even Ragnarok.


    As for Tolkein and Catholicism, these should help you:
    Why Tolkien Says "The Lord of the Rings" Is Catholic

    ZENIT - J.R.R. Tolkien's Sanctifying Myth

    The Presence of Christ in "The Lord of the Rings" | Peter J. Kreeft | IgnatiusInsight.com


    The first article is by Joseph Pearce, whose written I think two books on the life of Tolkein. The second article references to a letter Tolkein wrote in 1953 stating that LOTR was a Catholic-themed work, and citing his son Michael who once stated that Catholicism prevailed throughout the thinking and works of his father.

  5. #75
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Beowulf pretty much is a Christianized version of Norse mythology. Our main source for Norse mythology, the Poetic Edda, was recorded by Christian monks. One can go further and state that many key elements of Norse mythology are the result of Christian influence: such as the sacrifice of Wotan, Valhalla, and even Ragnarok.


    As for Tolkein and Catholicism, these should help you:
    Why Tolkien Says "The Lord of the Rings" Is Catholic

    ZENIT - J.R.R. Tolkien's Sanctifying Myth

    The Presence of Christ in "The Lord of the Rings" | Peter J. Kreeft | IgnatiusInsight.com


    The first article is by Joseph Pearce, whose written I think two books on the life of Tolkein. The second article references to a letter Tolkein wrote in 1953 stating that LOTR was a Catholic-themed work, and citing his son Michael who once stated that Catholicism prevailed throughout the thinking and works of his father.
    Having read the article there is a lot of catholic propaganda, but the only thing of any significance is the fall of the ring on March 25. Which also happens to be the end of the year in the Old English calendar. Which isn't a Christian thing!

    Did he ever say it was to do with the easter dates?

  6. #76
    Sniffles
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    Well hey, I provided you with the info. Whether you choose to believe it or not is your own problem.

  7. #77
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Well hey, I provided you with the info. Whether you choose to believe it or not is your own problem.
    Yep.. I do appreciate that. I wouldn't say it was a problem, I'd call it free will. But, it's good to differ, or life would be far too dull!

  8. #78
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    Yay, Tolkien! *toasts*

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