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  1. #41
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Hmm I wonder what a bunch of Tolkien geeks think to the films?
    I'm sure I don't know... but if I see any, I will be certain to ask them.


  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Hmm I wonder what a bunch of Tolkien geeks think to the films?
    I appreciate the fact that they got Tolkien into popular culture.

    I appreciate that so many people enjoyed them.

    I appreciate that they were as good as they were, because they could have been much worse.

    But my answer is: I saw the first movie twice in the theater and the other two just once each. I bought the boxed sets for my eldest to watch, watched the first movie a few times, and could not get through movies 2 or 3 at all. I have no desire or interest in watching them.

    Aside from the occasional scene that was artistically nailed (such as Faramir's assault on the ford overlaid with Pippin singing a lament and Denethor eating, or the additional exposition of Faramir and Boromir's relationship), they bore me... when they don't downright embarrass me.

    The things I loved in the book grew less and less prominent as the series progressed. I love the evocative nature of Tolkien's prose, where everything is more than what it is. (Shelob, for example, isn't just a giant spider. But that's all she was in the movie. It could have been shot differently, to evoke deeper emotions and realities, but they were simply interested in modeling a large humdrum spider.)

    Tolkien also had a very specific theology/spirituality underlying the books that I appreciated more than the movie's twist. [For example, Frodo was the "pure" one in the story but still was not pure enough to overcome the ring. Here, he was not nearly pure at all, and in the end was considered equal to the moral challenge of the ring because the movie wanted a more active protagonist.]

    Smeagol/Gollum was generally good, though.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #43
    Oberon
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    "...so passes Denethor, son of Ecthelion."

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    "...so passes Denethor, son of Ecthelion."


    "Denethor le flambe"

    heaven helped me, when he fell off the tower and fell to his smoldering doom, I laughed out loud so hard that everyone nearby stirred in their seats.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    The things I loved in the book grew less and less prominent as the series progressed. I love the evocative nature of Tolkien's prose, where everything is more than what it is. (Shelob, for example, isn't just a giant spider. But that's all she was in the movie. It could have been shot differently, to evoke deeper emotions and realities, but they were simply interested in modeling a large humdrum spider.)

    Tolkien also had a very specific theology/spirituality underlying the books that I appreciated more than the movie's twist. [For example, Frodo was the "pure" one in the story but still was not pure enough to overcome the ring. Here, he was not nearly pure at all, and in the end was considered equal to the moral challenge of the ring because the movie wanted a more active protagonist.]

    Smeagol/Gollum was generally good, though.
    Yeah, I can see all of that. I guess for me, I tend to separate the movies and the book as two separate things in my mind, so I don't need them to line up exactly; I can appreciate both in different ways. I'm pretty visual too, and I found the movies very visually appealing. My favorite fantasy world coming to life before my eyes. :-)

    Funny you bring up Frodo. I will say he's the only character in the movies that I get slightly annoyed with while watching -- there was something about the way Elijah played the character that was just kinda creepy/weird and not how I pictured Frodo in the books. But aside from him, I didn't really have any problems with the other characters (although there was something about Galadriel that bothered me too...but I don't know what).
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  6. #46
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I appreciate the fact that they got Tolkien into popular culture.

    I appreciate that so many people enjoyed them.

    I appreciate that they were as good as they were, because they could have been much worse.

    But my answer is: I saw the first movie twice in the theater and the other two just once each. I bought the boxed sets for my eldest to watch, watched the first movie a few times, and could not get through movies 2 or 3 at all. I have no desire or interest in watching them.

    Aside from the occasional scene that was artistically nailed (such as Faramir's assault on the ford overlaid with Pippin singing a lament and Denethor eating, or the additional exposition of Faramir and Boromir's relationship), they bore me... when they don't downright embarrass me.

    The things I loved in the book grew less and less prominent as the series progressed. I love the evocative nature of Tolkien's prose, where everything is more than what it is. (Shelob, for example, isn't just a giant spider. But that's all she was in the movie. It could have been shot differently, to evoke deeper emotions and realities, but they were simply interested in modeling a large humdrum spider.)

    Tolkien also had a very specific theology/spirituality underlying the books that I appreciated more than the movie's twist. [For example, Frodo was the "pure" one in the story but still was not pure enough to overcome the ring. Here, he was not nearly pure at all, and in the end was considered equal to the moral challenge of the ring because the movie wanted a more active protagonist.]

    Smeagol/Gollum was generally good, though.
    Hey! How did you manage to type my thoughts for me...

    I would however give a plus to the film for the perfection of the Balrog portayal... and the "fly you fools" as Gandalf falls. That hit the book-nail on the head.

    Mind you it needed a fair amount to make up for no-one tosses a dwarf...

    -Geoff

  7. #47
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    It's soo nice to brush up on one's troll skills every once in a while

    I agree though that the first film was more Tolkien than the subsequent two. Lose woman with fat lips, freaky Frodo and replace the dwarf with someone with credulity and you've improved the film already Hell the dwarf in Hawk the slayer is better and that's a damning realisation if ever there was one!!

    Mind you though I've found the books fade with time for me. What was once a magical land is now seen as a dictatorial old man laying down rules in the well known "cause I said so" style. I'm afraid my passion for Tolkien has flown as it objected to being called a fool.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    I would however give a plus to the film for the perfection of the Balrog portayal... and the "fly you fools" as Gandalf falls. That hit the book-nail on the head.
    Aside from the balrog look a little too much like an escapee from Diablo II, that was a very good scene. The whole Moria sequence was probably one of the best done in the movie, even with the changes, because the changes there meshed.

    Mind you it needed a fair amount to make up for no-one tosses a dwarf...


    I have to admit to laughing at that ... but the literary Gimli would have smashed some heads over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Mind you though I've found the books fade with time for me. What was once a magical land is now seen as a dictatorial old man laying down rules in the well known "cause I said so" style...
    They've already butchered Earthsea and Wrinkle in Time on television. I'm planning to go back and read Thomas Covenant shortly, but the movie moguls might actually get their hands on THAT too soon enough.

    Why don't they adapt something that was never serious enough to be tarnished... like Xanth? Now there is a whole string of movies waiting to happen!
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #49
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    They've already butchered Earthsea and Wrinkle in Time on television. I'm planning to go back and read Thomas Covenant shortly, but the movie moguls might actually get their hands on THAT too soon enough.

    Why don't they adapt something that was never serious enough to be tarnished... like Xanth? Now there is a whole string of movies waiting to happen!
    Personally I was hoping to see a Watchmen movie as I'm now reading through that but it appears the moguls are one step ahead of me and it's timed for release mid next year.

    I must say though that I thought the LOTR movies were good but that's because I didn't go in to the cinema expecting to watch a book. I just wanted to see a good fantasy movie and on that criteria it aces it.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #50
    Oberon
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    Trivia #10: What was the history of Merry's sword that made it an ideal weapon to attack the Lord of the Wringwraiths at Gladden Field?

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