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  1. #1
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    Default Is is worth keeping a bear in captivity?

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    Last edited by Al-Tair; 07-14-2010 at 02:27 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al-Tair View Post
    In my opinion, I think it is worth keeping a bear in captivity if it is going to bring even slight happiness/amusement to a human child.
    Using and [likely] abusing other animals for entertainment for humans seems self-absorbed, callous, ignorant and greedy. It sickens me.

    Secondly, it does nothing to teach the next generation [the children] about humane treatment of animals.

    A child can smile, laugh or giggle, without ever seeing a bear dance. It's called toys. Other animals are NOT toys. Children should be taught that difference. Taking away a wild animal's "freedom", just for the sake of a smile on a child [which can be achieved through other means] seems completely ridiculous, irrational and illogical.

    I think you are a troll and this thread is an attempt at trolling - horrible attempt at that.

    Peace.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Pixelholic's Avatar
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    Why is this your first post on this forum?
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.” -Nietzsche

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    Senior Member Pixelholic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al-Tair View Post
    Is the consciousness of an animal worth more then providing entertainment for humans
    Yes, it is.

    also where do you draw the line, when does the consciousness of an animal become so low, that it is OK to kill it and eat it, but it is not OK to kill a human child and it?
    Good point, I'll talk to my local butcher about selling child meat.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.” -Nietzsche

  5. #5
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al-Tair View Post
    What value do you put on the consciousness of an animal though?
    How do you determine "value"?

    Is the consciousness of an animal worth more then providing entertainment for humans,
    Can I poke you with a stick to see how you jump and dance? It would make me laugh so.

    Afterall, you are an animal, too.

    also where do you draw the line, when does the consciousness of an animal become so low, that it is OK to kill it and eat it, but it is not OK to kill a human child and it?
    Again, first explain how you determined each's "value".

  6. #6
    Senior Member Pixelholic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al-Tair View Post
    This question is redundant.
    Most new members don't start out with a post condoning animal cruelty.

    I'm starting to agree with Qre:us. You're a troll, and not a very clever one at that.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.” -Nietzsche

  7. #7
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    In my opinion, I think it is worth keeping a bear in captivity if it is going to bring even slight happiness/amusement to a human child.
    Wtf. I hope the bear eats your child.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Pixelholic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al-Tair View Post
    I understand humans are animals, however we human animals have higher cognitive abilities compared to non-human animals. Nature is not supposed to be ethical or unethical, these are cultural archetypes, which we have subjectively defined.

    I think it is poor reaching to argue bear dancing should be banned, since it is cruel - by the same token so is killing animals for food if you use that logic.
    Except that humans have the ability to think ethically, therefore we choose to exercise this ability and have decided that killing for food is a necessary but distasteful (heh) thing to do so we try to do it as painlessly as possible. While inflicting harm for pleasure or entertainment is barbaric and reprehensible.

    Yes it's arbitrary but if you want to argue about the arbitrary nature of man go take a post-modernism class and a lot of drugs and come back.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.” -Nietzsche

  9. #9
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    Why would you automatically value the consciousness of a human being over that of an animal?

    What are you, as a human being, going to do that is so damn great? Build bridges? Stop volcanoes from erupting? Who does that benefit? Just humans. Animals have their own rhythm and they are valued as they are, not materials for humans. Humans are so amazed by their own intellect and their ability to create forks, cars and etc. But it only serves humankind, it's not this huge marvelous, selfless thing. We live, we die, no more, no less, just like animals. Just 'cause we are quite over-sentimental about falling in love and having children doesn't make us more important.

    The eating of animals is beneficial to an extend, more than entertainment which is completely unnecessary. I was at a zoo in Asia a couple of summers ago and these animals were made to do all these silly things. They were kept in horrific cages, in the dark and they all looked like they were starving. I don't doubt they were and will continue to be abused just for entertainment.

    Humans follow the laws of gravity. But the same can be said about values, they are more subjective but they exist and they are equally mandatory.

    I'm not upset. I am at work and bored out of my mind so this is for the sake of argument.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al-Tair View Post
    Value is something completely subjective. This is my point, what difference does it make, killing and animal for meat or making is dance for entertainment. There must be some eternal subjective state of mind, when you say it is not OK to make the animal dance for entertainment.

    I understand humans are animals, however we human animals have higher cognitive abilities compared to non-human animals. Nature is not supposed to be ethical or unethical, these are cultural archetypes, which we have subjectively defined.

    I think it is poor reaching to argue bear dancing should be banned, since it is cruel - by the same token so is killing animals for food if you use that logic.
    Are you King T, the banned member who was stalking another member on this site?

    If so, welcome back for your short and unproductive visit.

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