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  1. #21
    Giggity Vie's Avatar
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    I make a show of grabbing my ear in hopes they recognize that I can't hear a damn word they are saying. If they are just soft spoken, I shout when I say something back to them. If they are a mumbler, gah, I call them mush mouth after everything I say.

    If they are an older person who reminds me of grandmothers and baked goods, I don't say what or question -- I just nod, smile, and hope to God I can make out one word they are saying to keep me anchored in the conversation.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    Oh this drives me crazy and I'm not hard of hearing. If you are speaking to someone (in the same language) it is your responsibility to make yourself understood. Not the other way around. If you can't bring yourself enunciate clearly, I'll ignore you for the most part.
    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    I disagree. It requires one who wants to speak and one who wants to listen. It's a cooperative system.

    Sometimes it is hard to listen...specially when you're thinking of something..
    What? You don't think people should speak clearly if they want to be heard? They're not responsible for being understood? Is it everyone else's job to decipher what they're saying? "It's a co-op game, fool, and I want you to take the lead and do most of the work even though I'm the one trying to express something." I think you're overestimating the other person's desire to listen. It's not a requirement. If the other person really wants to hear what you're trying say, they'll have to put in the extra work, but that's only an annoying fact of life.
    "When a resolute young fellow steps up the great bully, the world, and takes him boldly by the beard, he is often surprised to find that it comes off in his hand, and that it was only tied on to scare away the timid adventurers." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

  3. #23
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LucrativeSid View Post
    What? You don't think people should speak clearly if they want to be heard? They're not responsible for being understood? Is it everyone else's job to decipher what they're saying? "It's a co-op game, fool, and I want you to take the lead and do most of the work even though I'm the one trying to express something." I think you're overestimating the other person's desire to listen. It's not a requirement. If the other person really wants to hear what you're trying say, they'll have to put in the extra work, but that's only an annoying fact of life.
    I don't see how it's so hard to understand. X declared 1:0 is required for conversation. I say no, I say 1:1 is required. I did not fugging say 0:1.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    I don't see how it's so hard to understand. X declared 1:0 is required for conversation. I say no, I say 1:1 is required. I did not fugging say 0:1.
    X did not say that. X said that people were responsible for making themselves understood.

    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    Oh this drives me crazy and I'm not hard of hearing. If you are speaking to someone (in the same language) it is your responsibility to make yourself understood. Not the other way around. If you can't bring yourself enunciate clearly, I'll ignore you for the most part.
    It's clear that she's talking about the way a person speaks. Mumbling, enunciation, loudness... NOT conversations or communication in general. You're responsible for speaking clearly... Not for making the person understand the meaning of what you're trying to say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    I disagree. It requires one who wants to speak and one who wants to listen. It's a cooperative system.

    Sometimes it is hard to listen...specially when you're thinking of something..
    When I read what you said there, I was confused because it was like you didn't even read what she said. You disagreed with her, but on something she didn't even say. I think she had the same impression because she responded by saying:

    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    No I am not really referring to what you're speaking of. Maybe it's my years in a call center environment that makes me much more aware of how I speak and what I hear. In my experience, the majority of people can't seem to be bothered to make the way they speak understood. That's much different than the cooperation required in a conversation.
    I figured that would have cleared things up, but I was so baffled by your response as I read on that I wanted to chime in and play around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    I did not imply this.




    My point remains. It's a co-op game, not a singular story mode.
    You responded to her first sentence by saying "I did not imply this." You did not imply what? She just said she wasn't talking about what you were talking about.

    Your point remains.. and nobody challenges it, because it's not what anybody is talking about and nobody is disagreeing with it.

    I responded to your "I disagree" post as if you were actually disagreeing with the text you quoted, kind of as a joke, because I thought it would force you see that what you disagreed with and what you were talking about were two different things.

    Nope. You're still talking about conversations.

    To clarify things to an ultimate degree, I think that everyone agrees that in conversations, and in communication in general, it is a co-op game. Both parties are required. One to speak, one to listen, 1:1, yada yada. That's not what you disagreed with, though. You basically disagreed with the idea that people are responsible for the sound that comes out of their own mouths. (Hence my satirical response at first.)

    I'm just having fun and trying to clarify things. If I fail on one account, at least I've accomplished the other. Have a good day.
    "When a resolute young fellow steps up the great bully, the world, and takes him boldly by the beard, he is often surprised to find that it comes off in his hand, and that it was only tied on to scare away the timid adventurers." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

  5. #25
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LucrativeSid View Post
    X did not say that. X said that people were responsible for making themselves understood.
    Her words lacked completion to support a valid argument.

    Her 1st. claim: "It is your responsibility to make yourself understood." (1:0)

    You =/= understanding. You + Me = understanding.

    2nd Claim: "Not the other way around." (Understanding =/= 0:1)

    True.

    ---

    Yet, perhaps there is a fault in my logic here. Perhaps I have fallen prey to the logical fallacy known as "appeal to ignorance". Or...not.

    What do you think of "It is your responsibility to make yourself understood"? Does it imply 1? or 1:0?

    The word "your" implies a formal exclusive state. Therefore, 1:0

    If the sentence was written as "It is a responsibility of yours to make yourself understood", it would be correct.



    It's clear that she's talking about the way a person speaks. Mumbling, enunciation, loudness... NOT conversations or communication in general. You're responsible for speaking clearly... Not for making the person understand the meaning of what you're trying to say.
    Consider bold letters.
    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    Oh this drives me crazy and I'm not hard of hearing. If you are speaking to someone (in the same language) it is your responsibility to make yourself understood. Not the other way around. If you can't bring yourself enunciate clearly, I'll ignore you for the most part.
    1:0 not 0:1.
    When I read what you said there, I was confused because it was like you didn't even read what she said. You disagreed with her, but on something she didn't even say. I think she had the same impression because she responded by saying:
    I disagreed with what she said in her bold letters. And I presented my stance in case direction of my disagreement was misunderstood.
    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    I disagree. It requires one who wants to speak and one who wants to listen. It's a cooperative system.

    Sometimes it is hard to listen...specially when you're thinking of something..

    I figured that would have cleared things up, but I was so baffled by your response as I read on that I wanted to chime in and play around.

    Quote Originally Posted by LucrativeSid View Post
    What? You don't think people should speak clearly if they want to be heard? They're not responsible for being understood? Is it everyone else's job to decipher what they're saying? "It's a co-op game, fool, and I want you to take the lead and do most of the work even though I'm the one trying to express something." I think you're overestimating the other person's desire to listen. It's not a requirement. If the other person really wants to hear what you're trying say, they'll have to put in the extra work, but that's only an annoying fact of life.
    Nonetheless, you still have misunderstood me.

    You responded to her first sentence by saying "I did not imply this." You did not imply what? She just said she wasn't talking about what you were talking about.
    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    No I am not really referring to what you're speaking of. Maybe it's my years in a call center environment that makes me much more aware of how I speak and what I hear. In my experience, the majority of people can't seem to be bothered to make the way they speak understood. That's much different than the cooperation required in a conversation.
    (addressing former bold letters of quote)Yes, I have misunderstood here.

    Though the latter bold letters do suggest ignorance of 1:1, initial invalid argument is still present.


    That's not what you disagreed with, though. You basically disagreed with the idea that people are responsible for the sound that comes out of their own mouths. (Hence my satirical response at first.)
    You misunderstood. Thus, incorrect.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    What do you think of "It is your responsibility to make yourself understood"? Does it imply 1? or 1:0?

    The word "your" implies a formal exclusive state. Therefore, 1:0

    If the sentence was written as "It is a responsibility of yours to make yourself understood", it would be correct.
    I don't know. I just look at it in context and use my brain. In my opinion, it means that it's your responsibility to speak clearly and it's not other person's responsibility to ask you "what" a million times just because you're too retarded or lazy to make your speech intelligible.

    If I'm wrong about that, then nevermind the whole thing. If I'm right, then I'm done here.
    "When a resolute young fellow steps up the great bully, the world, and takes him boldly by the beard, he is often surprised to find that it comes off in his hand, and that it was only tied on to scare away the timid adventurers." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

  7. #27
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    ....before you just pretend to understand, because you still didn't hear what they said?

    Just curious if anyone else finds this awkward.

    Two times for me. I have to say this happens a lot though, maybe I should up it to three times. People mumble everything.
    What?

  8. #28
    Starcrossed Seafarer Aquarelle's Avatar
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    Ha! One or twice for me - it is awkward!! I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who eventually pretends I hear them!

  9. #29
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    I've probably said "what" it at least around 350,000 times.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  10. #30
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    I'll keep saying it until I understand what they said, usually, unless it's a really old or sick person then I'll just kind of humor them and "yeah yeah yeah" them good naturedly.

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