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  1. #61
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    Me too but what also hit my alarm buttons was why he wanted the opinion on this of someone he had only spoken to about gaming for a short period???

    I am XNTP actually but part of me shies away from wanting to share anyone's intimate relationship details on an acquaintenceship like that!

    As far as long distance relationships go, being a female XNTP, many of my closest friendships have been with guys, but they have been mindmate friendships developed on similar interests, ways of thinking, philosophies, sense of humour etc.

    These also have at times been distance relationships but, though platonic, have been very special to me and continue to be in my mind and soul.

    These are different to the "I can live with you and your upsides and downsides on an intimate basis every day" - or as I told my daughter - who could you share your toothbrush with in an emergency!!
    Yeah, well, what happened with me was that I had made good friends in person before the internet became what it is today and when they moved away to universities I corresponded with them by post, I really think that the time taken to write and rewrite and think about letters helped me mature and lead to some pretty good long distance friendships developing.

    When the internet took off I met people through forums of authors or politics forums, most recently a more religious themed one, and those where mainly cerebral "meets" and just let the relationship develop, went and visited a couple of them and one more than once, went on holiday with her even. There are great differences and the origins of the relationship matter a lot more than I once figured.

    This is part of what interests me about online behaviour and dynamics on forums, you could almost have a half dozen types of people who gravitate to the internet and I keep encountering the same traits (I even think that I've developed some myself).

    I agree with you that you dont simply hop, skip and jump to life changing issues in an exchange with a stranger online, if you do I think you can reasonably only expect very general advice, like an agony aunt column, I also think you need to respect the right of the other party to say they dont want to discuss or arent interested, particularly if the meet through the medium of something other than the topic, ie meeting on a forum discussing fiction and you decide to discuss inheritance tax, forget about it.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    I will keep it bumped Lark. I am interested in your thoughts on this and political implications??? Meanwhile enjoy your break!
    Alright so I posted that when I was leaving to come home, it was short break but I'm thinking about building up my leave and stuff for a longer one.

    Yeah, I was thinking about how political and social implications could be drawn from this topic too, are you enabling or challenging if you support or oppose demonstrations by groups with grievances? What is the welfare state or other social-political institutions doing in terms of either enabling or challenging social trends including victimisation, victimhood/victim identity, co-dependency? What about capitalism or other social trends, most of all consumerism?

    I read a good book by among other people bill cosby about the US and black communities not too long ago, although I know its been really attacked by a lot of traditional left opinion.

    If this is a thread derail I could start a new and different one.

  3. #63
    Senior Member proximo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    God helps those who help themselves.

    Although a creature of great empathy, my time and resources are precious and limited.

    Therefore, I will not waste them on those who do not ask for my assistance, or those who do not obviously need it.

    Don't get me wrong, I will let no evil occur before me, but at the same time I will not try to save someone who has a verified propensity for self destruction from themself.
    This one. Except the "creature of great empathy" part. I'm not that.

    I tend to have sympathy for someone the first few times, but if I notice a pattern of complaining about the same old shit, never doing anything about it themselves, I just distance myself from them.

    I've learned that you just CANNOT help a person until and unless they're ready and want to be helped. So I feel no guilt any more about just walking away when I know there really is nothing I can do.
    I'm male and over 30, FYI.
    Preferences: 20% Extravert, 98% Intuitive, 68% Thinker, 17% Perceiving

  4. #64
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Alright so I posted that when I was leaving to come home, it was short break but I'm thinking about building up my leave and stuff for a longer one.

    Yeah, I was thinking about how political and social implications could be drawn from this topic too, are you enabling or challenging if you support or oppose demonstrations by groups with grievances? What is the welfare state or other social-political institutions doing in terms of either enabling or challenging social trends including victimisation, victimhood/victim identity, co-dependency? What about capitalism or other social trends, most of all consumerism?

    I read a good book by among other people bill cosby about the US and black communities not too long ago, although I know its been really attacked by a lot of traditional left opinion.

    If this is a thread derail I could start a new and different one.
    Not necessarily a derail but you have raised a number of important ethical, social and political/economic issues here that may warrant a thread of their own.

    When serving on the anti-bullying group to develop new policy there were many entrenched beureaucrats who did not see that anything was broken or that it should be better. This was often because they turned a blind eye, not seeing the harm that was being done by what they considered relatively innocuous actions; or they were themselves involved in bullying.

    I can't honestly say I was astonished but I did have good cause to quote
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. by Edmund Burke.
    and

    When the Nazis came for the communists,
    I remained silent;
    I was not a communist.

    When they locked up the social democrats,
    I remained silent;
    I was not a social democrat.

    When they came for the trade unionists,
    I did not speak out;
    I was not a trade unionist.

    When they came for the Jews,
    I remained silent;
    I wasn't a Jew.

    When they came for me,
    there was no one left to speak out.
    "First they came..." - The origins of this poem first have been traced to a speech given by Niemöller on January 6, 1946, to the representatives of the Confessing Church in Frankfurt
    There is a sad reality that most of modern society finds it more comfortable to ignore the problems of others, turn a blind eye saying it's not their problem, or simply fool themselves into believing they don't exist.

    I think this is exacerbated by the desensitisation against violence in particular (movies and games), prejudice and hypocrisy, greed and exploitation so long as it doesn't affect our own immediate little world. As a society we largely seem incapable of putting ourselves into the shoes of the less privileged any more.

    Sometimes victimhood is justified simply because people don't necessarily know how to pull themselves out. This can be at the micro level with an individual or at a macro level with an indigenous population or indeed at the super macro cultural divide in another country.

    Simply imposing our WASP values on others in a paternalistic manner like the missionaries in Africa, the Far East and the Pacific regions, or invading populations in Australia, Africa and the Americas will not value, sustain or support a people or a culture in surviving what we deemed our right to change.

    How do we know what is the right thing to do?? That depends on the individual and the individual circumstances they face, and the courage they feel free to display.

    So many more thoughts on this!!
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

  5. #65
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah, well, what happened with me was that I had made good friends in person before the internet became what it is today and when they moved away to universities I corresponded with them by post, I really think that the time taken to write and rewrite and think about letters helped me mature and lead to some pretty good long distance friendships developing.

    When the internet took off I met people through forums of authors or politics forums, most recently a more religious themed one, and those where mainly cerebral "meets" and just let the relationship develop, went and visited a couple of them and one more than once, went on holiday with her even. There are great differences and the origins of the relationship matter a lot more than I once figured.

    This is part of what interests me about online behaviour and dynamics on forums, you could almost have a half dozen types of people who gravitate to the internet and I keep encountering the same traits (I even think that I've developed some myself).

    I agree with you that you dont simply hop, skip and jump to life changing issues in an exchange with a stranger online, if you do I think you can reasonably only expect very general advice, like an agony aunt column, I also think you need to respect the right of the other party to say they dont want to discuss or arent interested, particularly if the meet through the medium of something other than the topic, ie meeting on a forum discussing fiction and you decide to discuss inheritance tax, forget about it.
    I understand your stance here too It was the same when studying amateur radio - many different types, some of whom were dodgy. I did however develop an amazing friendship with one person who sadly died very young of the big C. One of the most amazing friendships of my life!
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

  6. #66
    Pumpernickel
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    Most of the time I'll try to get them out of the "I'm a victim" mode just by mentioning a whole bunch of hypothetical possibilities for why the incident occurred, just to get them to realize that they may have jumped the gun too quickly in the situation. THEN I'll look into the situation a bit and if i agree with them i'd probably just atell them I agree and then provide suggestions for how to plot against the person who victimized them. If I disagree then depending on whether or not I find their situation to be stupid, I'll probably either dismiss the whole thing very bluntly, or tell them theyre being stupid.

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