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  1. #11
    Reptilian Snuggletron's Avatar
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    the ones that sound like martyrs/poor me's I tend to tell off after awhile

    the ones who don't deserve it or are subjected to bad "luck" I would try and talk through with

  2. #12
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    I think most enablers see themselves as being supportive, non-judgmental, and emotionally validating. This forum is full of enablers.

    It's been something of increasing importance to give people what they need to hear vs empty platitudes couched as validation. Everyone wants to hear they're a good person, just misunderstood and unappreciated. It doesn't have to be true or not, they just want to hear it and will flock to those who do it.

    Reminds me of this video that stuck with me for a long time:

    [YOUTUBE="Cbk980jV7Ao"]Validation[/YOUTUBE]

    While most people find this video uplifting, it scares the beejeesus out of me.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
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  3. #13
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    I tend to just ignore those people. If they ask for me help I'll usually say something like "Stop doing what you're doing." and as a kind man I give them advice such as "Next time, don't do that."

  4. #14
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I think most enablers see themselves as being supportive, non-judgmental, and emotionally validating. This forum is full of enablers.

    It's been something of increasing importance to give people what they need to hear vs empty platitudes couched as validation. Everyone wants to hear they're a good person, just misunderstood and unappreciated. It doesn't have to be true or not, they just want to hear it and will flock to those who do it.

    Reminds me of this video that stuck with me for a long time:

    [youtube="Cbk980jV7Ao"]Validation[/youtube]


    While most people find this video uplifting, it scares the beejeesus out of me.
    I found the beginning of this disturbing but I warmed to it.

    I have a problem with the word validation as it is often used now and associate it with (and it seems to resonate with) the extraverted, loud, brash, self-serving and insincere salesmen, particularly from tiered or pyramid sales. In fact the term I believe is used in training people in these areas.

    A person who genuinely intends to be uplifting and find something nice to say about everyone is very rare. We unfortunately tend to see the insincere instead.
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

  5. #15
    Senior Member copperfish17's Avatar
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    I usually tell them to go find someone else to talk to. I have neither the obligation nor the patience to deal with such people.

    If they persist with such behavior, however, I'm afraid I'm prone to lashing out (verbally), provided it won't result in some ttyl srs consequences. :workout:

    I do try my best not to go there though.
    Enneagram: 5w4 5-9-2 (5w4 9w1 2w1) sp/so

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    The worst mistake people make in political arguments is assuming that the other side is not trying to do the right thing. This simple oversight makes productive conversation nearly impossible.

  6. #16
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Those who have a victim mentality are people who look on the negative side of life, traditionally they're the kind of souls I avoid, it's easier for them to drag others down then for them to be pepped up. If I can't avoid them I ignore them 90% of the time and shoot them down by offering my alternative positive view the other 10% of the time as often all they're looking for is someone to say "oh, woe is you, your life is so hard you poor soul" and I refuse to do that. Shooting them down has the added bonus of discouraging them from coming to me for sympathy not advice in the future.

  7. #17
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    It is end of semester and I have been thinking of specific incidents with students during the year so far, and how each of us (INTP, ESTJ, ESFJ, ISFP, INTJ) deal with self-proclaimed *victims* as opposed to real victims.

    There seem to be smatterings in almost every forum in which I have participated.

    I am curious to see whether:

    1. you are an enabler
    2. you ignore this behaviour
    3. you are verbally dismissive towards them
    4. you try to correct them
    5. any other approach you might have
    Depends how obvious it is that they have no intention of changing things. Usually though, I tend to 1) get to know them well enough to make sure I've correctly seen reoccuring patterns 2) if there's reoccuring complaining, I become more blunt than usual and point out what is not working for them or the root cause I see 3) Be wary if they are too embracing of or too prickly towards suggestion made. 4) Let them be if they aren't interested in finding a solution/resolution.

    The less I'm invested in them, the less likely I am to bother with the possible conflict that could ensue. The more obvious it is that they are being foolish and enjoy not changing while complaining bitterly, the more likely I am to not get involved, while making it distasteful for them to wallow around me. It depends on whether children are being affected by their bad choices, if I am being affected, or if it's mostly them. If it's the first two, I'll make a bigger effort to try to impact their perspective.

  8. #18
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Depends how obvious it is that they have no intention of changing things. Usually though, I tend to 1) get to know them well enough to make sure I've correctly seen reoccuring patterns 2) if there's reoccuring complaining, I become more blunt than usual and point out what is not working for them or the root cause I see 3) Be wary if they are too embracing of or too prickly towards suggestion made. 4) Let them be if they aren't interested in finding a solution/resolution.

    The less I'm invested in them, the less likely I am to bother with the possible conflict that could ensue. The more obvious it is that they are being foolish and enjoy not changing while complaining bitterly, the more likely I am to not get involved, while making it distasteful for them to wallow around me. It depends on whether children are being affected by their bad choices, if I am being affected, or if it's mostly them. If it's the first two, I'll make a bigger effort to try to impact their perspective.
    I see why you are the super moderator This tends to be my own approach while also explaining the need to recognise action and consequence and taking responsibility for their own behaviour.

    example

    I had a terrified, tiny in stature, lecturer in my office telling me she was scared to go back into class. A largeish lass of 16 had just told her she was schizophrenic and had a certificate saying she was insane, and that she could have her on the floor inside of two minutes and she could be dead.

    I'm sorry but I could barely hold back my amusement. When I asked her what brought on this outburst, it turned out she (the lecturer) had been discussing her depression on a personal basis with the class.

    I fetched the student to the office and notified security and the manager, and sent the lecturer back to class but not before telling her that there is no such thing in this country as a person having a Certificate saying they are insane!

    I also suggested that it wasn't really professional or wise to discuss her personal mental health issues with a class unless there was a valid lesson in it.

    While waiting for the manager and psychologist to arrive from another campus, the lass admitted she was lying about the schizophrenia but then started tried to impress me by telling some outrageous stories of her mother stabbing her repeatedly (with no scars?). It became very obvious that she had a personality disorder.

    Moral to the story?? Make certain you truly understand what is going on before responding to a situation. You could otherwise do more harm than good.
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

  9. #19
    The Duchess of Oddity Queen Kat's Avatar
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    I usually just ignore them.
    I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower. The TV was obviously on. I used to fly myself and I said, "There's one terrible pilot."
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  10. #20
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    I don't know. I'm between the enabler and the ignoring them. I'm the one helping the alcoholic get drunk, just because drinking alone isn't fun.

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