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  1. #11
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    The advise was solicited. I know this person very well.

    What if this person cannot see his/her own talents strengths, and/or believes the things mentioned as strengths are not real?
    Well, I can relate to that - unfortunately.

    Is this person an INTJ?

  2. #12
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    ...
    Perhaps the person does not trust his/her own abilities, or more accurately, has not found an outlet where his talents are recognised and can grow to a level where competence gives him more personal confidence.

    Usually, we're encouraged to continue doing something good if we receive acknowledgement for it - a positive feedback loop, in a way?

    Perhaps at the start, try find something you could do with your friend, where his talents could be an advantage? Having someone to go someway down the road with you is helpful. e.g. to use an example: An exercise buddy encourages one to do something unpleasant, after a while, it becomes part of the routine, and you can carry on on your own without the constant support.

    Words will only help so far, he'd still have to take action at some time. Probably the best you can do is to trigger that action vs merely tell him he's good and can/should do more, especially if he does not trust his own ability or your words?
    Exactly. This is what I had to do. It doesn't happen very fast.

  3. #13
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    It is really hard to find ways to utilize this persons natural strengths without having to make extensive effort in weak areas.

    What this person is only good at generating ideas (whether they are good or not is subjective, I suppose) clarifying them based on a growing knowledge base, and can creating plans/strategies for the future. But this person is not at all interested in actually implementing them or convincing others to implement them? In fact, this person finds implementation draining, mind-numbing, and depressing, and finds the act of convincing someone else repulsive.
    I can SO RELATE to this!!

    Is this person looking for a job? Do they have a job now?

    Obviously, this person will have to find something else to do besides promoting their ideas. While some types are good at this, other types are not.

    Why not suggest your friend peruse the pages of Do What You Are. I'm sure it's at a nearby library. It's a very helpful tool.

    What do you think your friend's type is?

  4. #14
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    I don't think lazy and arrogant makes someone a bad person.

    The person would be well-advised to consider how these traits may affect future events though, and whether ultimately they result in more or less happiness.

    There isn't really anything that can be done from an external perspective.

  5. #15
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    Is it fear that is keeping him from action then, vs laziness as you first said?

    Perhaps the person does not trust his/her own abilities, or more accurately, has not found an outlet where his talents are recognised and can grow to a level where competence gives him more personal confidence.

    Usually, we're encouraged to continue doing something good if we receive acknowledgement for it - a positive feedback loop, in a way?

    Perhaps at the start, try find something you could do with your friend, where his talents could be an advantage? Having someone to go someway down the road with you is helpful. e.g. to use an example: An exercise buddy encourages one to do something unpleasant, after a while, it becomes part of the routine, and you can carry on on your own without the constant support.

    Words will only help so far, he'd still have to take action at some time. Probably the best you can do is to trigger that action vs merely tell him he's good and can/should do more, especially if he does not trust his own ability or your words?
    *agrees*

    If he wants to change, I think what he ought to do is to forgive himself. All this fear of "can't do anything" is depressing. I've been in/ am at that stage. Acknowledge that it's okay to be a little lazy. It's okay to be unsure at things... part of the learning process after all.

    Take things slow, one baby step at a time. One can't hope to suddenly be all changed. I know I've always tried to do too much at once and all I feel is depressed when it doesn't seem to move at all. Then I ended up slipping back. When in reality I have made progress... it's just not as dramatic as I wish.

    Best of luck to you and your friend.

  6. #16
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    What if this person cannot see his/her own talents strengths, and/or believes the things mentioned as strenghts are not real?
    Relating to this person with criticism or implying they are a bad person will likely deplete what resources they have. Also, imposing one's own will on another person can deplete them as a person.

    What can often give people strength is to accept them for exactly who they are, but also believe in their strengths even before they can. I have done this as a teacher for a number of years. For many people the first step is to decompress - let go of controlling them or making them feel forced to act. Rather, simply embrace them with interest, even when they don't have their motivation, keep a watchful eye for their strengths and mention these gently and without expectation. Approach the person something like this: "I really like you for the following reasons [insert]. I've noticed you have unique strength/ability in these areas [insert]. If you ever did choose to pursue that, I have every confidence you would do really well. If you have reasons not to pursue it, I respect you enough as a person to know you have your reasons." Even if that isn't said explicitly, that mindset can go a long way to motivate people who resist pressure. And when spoken in truthfulness, the acceptance is real even if they are not motivated to act.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    ^ So true.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I can SO RELATE to this!!

    Is this person looking for a job? Do they have a job now?

    Obviously, this person will have to find something else to do besides promoting their ideas. While some types are good at this, other types are not.

    Why not suggest your friend peruse the pages of Do What You Are. I'm sure it's at a nearby library. It's a very helpful tool.

    What do you think your friend's type is?
    This individual has a job but feels it is heavily taxes waek points and uses strenghts much more infrequently than anticipated for an R&D.

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I don't think lazy and arrogant makes someone a bad person.

    The person would be well-advised to consider how these traits may affect future events though, and whether ultimately they result in more or less happiness.

    There isn't really anything that can be done from an external perspective.
    I suppose being lazy and arrogant doesn't make someone bad, but this individual believes in a moral imperative to bring about changes in the world.

    Do you believe those traits are changable? This individual has tried to change for a short lifetime.

    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    *agrees*

    If he wants to change, I think what he ought to do is to forgive himself. All this fear of "can't do anything" is depressing. I've been in/ am at that stage. Acknowledge that it's okay to be a little lazy. It's okay to be unsure at things... part of the learning process after all.

    Take things slow, one baby step at a time. One can't hope to suddenly be all changed. I know I've always tried to do too much at once and all I feel is depressed when it doesn't seem to move at all. Then I ended up slipping back. When in reality I have made progress... it's just not as dramatic as I wish.

    Best of luck to you and your friend.
    I suppose taking baby steps in important, but baby steps in what direction?

    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    Relating to this person with criticism or implying they are a bad person will likely deplete what resources they have. Also, imposing one's own will on another person can deplete them as a person.

    What can often give people strength is to accept them for exactly who they are, but also believe in their strengths even before they can. I have done this as a teacher for a number of years. For many people the first step is to decompress - let go of controlling them or making them feel forced to act. Rather, simply embrace them with interest, even when they don't have their motivation, keep a watchful eye for their strengths and mention these gently and without expectation. Approach the person something like this: "I really like you for the following reasons [insert]. I've noticed you have unique strength/ability in these areas [insert]. If you ever did choose to pursue that, I have every confidence you would do really well. If you have reasons not to pursue it, I respect you enough as a person to know you have your reasons." Even if that isn't said explicitly, that mindset can go a long way to motivate people who resist pressure. And when spoken in truthfulness, the acceptance is real even if they are not motivated to act.
    Good advice. Hard to follow I find. But, I guess I knew that was what needed to be done all along. Thanks Toonia.

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  9. #19
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Acceptance. There's no need to beat yourself over the head when you're trying to change.

  10. #20
    Senior Member FallsPioneer's Avatar
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    I would advise bad people not to be themselves.

    I read it as a quote somewhere. =D
    Still using a needle to break apart a grain of sand.

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