User Tag List

First 123 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 27

  1. #11
    ReflecTcelfeR
    Guest

    Default

    The only INTJ I know of is a very good friend of mine. We get along, but debating with him isn't the most fun. We seem to get stuck in an area where I make a point and he vehemently denies the validity of that point, even though I understand it completely... it just goes in circles. Now that I look on it. I think my Ti is being translated well enough... I'm not sure where the disconnect occurs. Let me think on it.

  2. #12
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,581

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
    You should know that one of the biggest tenets of thinking objectively is avoiding generalization. You're considering that INTP to apply to all INTPs when it is one mere anecdote of what may be an especially immature INTP. I will always listen to someone's opinions for and against doing something and if I find that their opinion is logical, I shall reverse my decision and go with theirs. And if I seem to not be, just point it out to me and I will most likely slap myself for being shamefully unobjective and give your points more consideration.
    No, actually, I am asking why a typical INTP might behave this way, and whether it is in fact typical at all for INTPs. I could assume he is atypical, or check with "the experts" and get some more information. If he is simply atypical, it would explain alot. I don't know that many INTPs IRL to compare.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Stevo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6
    Posts
    406

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I have a close friend who is INTP and we often have discussions that end up this way. Specifically, he states that he can't offer an opinion because he doesn't have enough information. This could be about anything: the economy, dangers of sunscreens with nanoparticles, best way to grow tomatoes, etc. I prefer to form an opinion, but then remain open to revising it as I learn more. That way, if I need to make a related decision, I have given it some consideration based upon available information.
    This is indeed how I prefer to function---I would rather reserve judgement until I know enough about a situation to be reasonably confident in the correctness of my position. Of course, I will issue a tentative opinion if I am pressured to, but in that situation I will pepper my thoughts with a lot of qualifiers towards the effect that my position may very well be wrong as I am neither an expert or particularly well informed. That seems to be a sensible way of going about judgments to me.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Stevo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6
    Posts
    406

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    No, actually, I am asking why a typical INTP might behave this way, and whether it is in fact typical at all for INTPs. I could assume he is atypical, or check with "the experts" and get some more information. If he is simply atypical, it would explain alot. I don't know that many INTPs IRL to compare.
    I would like to think that my behavior does not match the example of that particular INTP, but of course I could just be deceiving myself into being more objective than I really am. But I would like to believe that I will give every point of view a fair shake---I may not, however, voice why I think an opinion is wrong if I do indeed find it wrong, what with my Ti and all.

  5. #15
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,581

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
    I would like to think that my behavior does not match the example of that particular INTP, but of course I could just be deceiving myself into being more objective than I really am. But I would like to believe that I will give every point of view a fair shake---I may not, however, voice why I think an opinion is wrong if I do indeed find it wrong, what with my Ti and all.
    I am curious about this. If you think something is wrong, why would you not explain why? This is exactly the sense I get from my INTP friend; he doesn't seem to think any explanation is needed. It is enough for him to say it is wrong, and I have to just take his word for it.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Stevo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6
    Posts
    406

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I am curious about this. If you think something is wrong, why would you not explain why? This is exactly the sense I get from my INTP friend; he doesn't seem to think any explanation is needed. It is enough for him to say it is wrong, and I have to just take his word for it.
    Well, sometimes, I feel that a verbal expression of it won't really do my thoughts justice. As I try to put what I'm thinking into words, something just gets lost in translation and I end up foregoing verbal expression altogether. It's sort of hard to describe, but I have a lot of well-formed opinions that nevertheless I have no idea how to verbalize. The best thing to do is allow me to stew on it for a little while, and eventually the words I'm seeking will suddenly become clear in my mind. It just takes a bit of time.

    Other times I just find the reason why it's wrong to be so patently obvious it doesn't even bear mentioning.

  7. #17
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    2,158

    Default

    I think I tend to see things on a continuum. For instance, if my stance on something is that it's "probably true" (but I can't be sure), then that's the stance I take. If I'm (just as an example) 70% sure of that something is correct, then I give that side of the argument about 70% "weight" in my explanations or in the position/stance I'm willing to take.

    I was looking at buying a motorhome today. I found what I thought was a good deal, based on research I've done in recent weeks. When I talked to a family member who knows A LOT about motorhomes, he began asking some very thought-provoking questions. Then he said, "do you still think this is a good deal?" Before I started talking to him, I was probably 95% sure that it was a great deal. But, after our conversation, I was probably only 60% sure that it was a great deal. So, my stance is now: I'm pretty sure it's a good deal, but I have a lot more investigating to do. Now, I sound wishy-washy - like I'm not "making a definite decision". But, that's just it, my position reflects how sure I am of something on the internal continuum, if that makes sense.

    I find that when people "make up their minds for certain", it is then when I see inconsistencies and holes in their logic. It's not always wise to be dogmatic. There's always more information funneling in. Just like with the INTJ in my OP. I found his statement about not trusting people to be very - what's the word - shortsighted. I said, "Dude, you seem bitter. There are a lot of good people out there in the world. If you don't give them a chance, then you'll just always project onto everyone that you're good and they're bad and not deserving of your trust.

    I respect INTJ's a great deal. I really do. My father is one and my grandfather is one. It's just when they are so certain of things and have "made up their mind", I often want to say, "how are you so sure that you're right?" And there are times when, sure enough, more information comes in and what they "knew for certain" has to be revised. I try to never be on extreme ends of the continuum. That's when I get myself in trouble because I "know" that I'm right.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  8. #18
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    1,492

    Default

    I know a couple INTJs (one of whom has tested as INTJ, the other I just believe in INTJ) who are pretty cool folks. Notably, they served as a gateway for me to become interested in politics, and discussions with them have shaped a few of my opinions. Hopefully, I have done the same for them. One, in particular, is the person who kinda rounds up and gives direction to my generally aloof, indecisive group of mostly P friends.

    Concise review of INTJs: Positive feedback. No outstanding issues.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  9. #19
    Black Magic Buzzard Kra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    912

    Default

    I can't speak with certainty for INTPs, nor all INTJs, but I can give my viewpoint and usual method.

    It's not so much that we make an "absolute decision," as it is that we are constantly making progress, one way or the other, to a desired outcome. When I have enough information to reasonably break the 50/50 chance bracket, I start moving in the direction of greatest probability. I approach it with the same mentality of "I'm 60% sure of this," and will change the plan as necessary. I will have also made backup plans in the event that my initial assertion was incorrect.

    This is where I believe INTJs and INTPs differ the most. It seems that while INTPs prefer an objective decision backed by large amounts of data, INTJs prefer an initial decision, backed by an extensive safety net of contingency plans and adaptations to be used as indicated by uncovered data.

    In short, and this is entirely too stereotypical to be indicative of all members of each type:

    INTP - The truth is in the data.
    INTJ - The truth is in the method.

    That's obviously over-simplifying it, but if the type literature holds any water, it has some truth to it.
    Function Activity:
    Ni > Te > Ti = Fi > Ne > Si = Fe > Se

  10. #20
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    2,158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kra View Post
    This is where I believe INTJs and INTPs differ the most. It seems that while INTPs prefer an objective decision backed by large amounts of data, INTJs prefer an initial decision, backed by an extensive safety net of contingency plans and adaptations to be used as indicated by uncovered data.

    In short, and this is entirely too stereotypical to be indicative of all members of each type:

    INTP - The truth is in the data.
    INTJ - The truth is in the method.
    When you say the "truth is in the method", do you mean that the truth is found once you start doing it? Like if you just start moving forward with your initial plan (and maybe you have to revise it and maybe you don't), you will find the truth or the best method somewhere along that journey or along that path?

    Yeah, you're right about INTP's for the most part. For me, I really like to see that some theory has "stood the test of time" or I like to see that it can pass certain tests over and over again. If I'm learning about something, I will read some material on it and kind of get a "leaning" one way or another. Then, I'll let that sit for a day or so. Then, I'll go back and find some new material on the same subject. Internally (in my head) I will compare and contrast the new information with what I had learned earlier. And I will do this over and over. What I'm hoping for in this process is that each time I take in new information, that it begins to "line up" or coincide with what I had already read. Each time I look at new data or new material, I know I'm going to get some "new stuff" - and that's fine. I don't want to "force my own opinion" - I want to let the facts and the information paint its own picture. I come into the whole situation with a completely blank canvas and I let the data/information create whatever it naturally creates. But, in a broad sense, I want to see that the general trends of the things I'm reading are similar to each other. Each time that happens, I begin to build more and more confidence in that theory or whatever it is I'm learning about.

    If I read something out of a college textbook then I might feel like 25% sure about it. Then I might do some independent research online - look for articles written by experts, etc. If what I read lines up with what was in the textbook, then my confidence increases. But, I still might not be ready to put this thing into action. I might go talk to an expert and get the opinion of a live person - who has "been there, done that" (I'm talking about an actual business situation here, by the way). I just went and talked to someone today who started a huge company. And what he said basically confirmed what I had been learning on my own. Level of confidence in said theory goes up with each "verification" or validation.

    Where it gets sticky for the INTP is when we have something verified time and time again and we still don't act. My instinct is to go check with a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th business expert to make sure they say the same thing. It really can get ridiculous because even if they all said the same thing, I'd probably want to talk to a 5th, 6th, and 7th "just to make sure". 10 verifications (or positive reinforcements) is much better than 1. But, at some point, you have to dive in and go with what you've got. That's the negative part for us - we tend to hesitate way too long.

    The positive side of this is that if and when we finally launch out, so much investigating has been done that the rate of success and the quality of whatever we do is very, very high. We know this from experience. When we skimp on "verification" and dive in too soon, we have a higher failure rate. We sometimes fall flat on our faces. But, when we are comfortable that everything lines up and we've verified several times and haven't taken shortcuts or started too early with incomplete information - if we do all of that, then 99% of the time it's money in the bank.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

Similar Threads

  1. [NT] INTP + INTJ relationships, do they work?
    By Risen in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 06-09-2015, 05:00 AM
  2. [INTP] INTPs and interaction
    By Pandorous pelican in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-26-2010, 10:47 PM
  3. INFJ/INTP/INTJ/INFP
    By Torai in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 06-13-2008, 05:56 AM
  4. [NT] INTP/INTJ long distance relationships
    By Risen in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 05-27-2008, 08:15 AM
  5. [INTJ] INTJs interacting with others
    By Natrushka in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 10-20-2007, 04:30 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO