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  1. #111
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    I pointed out one negative quality that Ne causes in Ne-ers: Ne often manifests as the inability to use past experience as a sound basis for judgment of new experiences, and this can cause Ne-ers to be annoyingly unrealistic at times. I pointed this out as a small elaboration on Peguy's anecdote about how he has observed Ne to be somewhat insatiable in the connections it makes to a some times unhealthy/annoying degree.
    I had an strong immediate reaction against this and had to think about it another 30 seconds or so before reaching a conclusion, since it definitely did not gib with my personal experience.

    I think the Ne primaries are the ones who are susceptible to this (your ENPs), considering the Si inferior.

    Because honestly a lot of INPs have decent Si, it's actually the tertiary "cop out" for us and we use it to hide when we're tired or scared of extroverting through (wait for it... wait for it...) ... Ne.

    So only a portion of membership will typically show this, and not necessarily the highest percentage of posters here (INPs).

    Ne actually does some times manifest itself as a lack of self-control; it's an addiction to novelty. Ne-ers some times become so curious to find new meanings and new connections, that they can't stop exploring a given a situation, even when they know they should. It's pretty clear that this can cause negative consequences in some scenarios. And obviously we have "free will" enough to eventually stop, but Ne certainly does cause Ne-ers to be less disciplined than they probably ought to be.
    I'd avoid "ought to be" as a phrase, but I agree with your thinking wholeheartedly.... it's one of my larger weaknesses, and I have to forcibly shut down Ne in order to get anything done. If I don't concentrate, I'll float into brainstorm/connection mode again because it's just easier and non-committal in nature.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #112
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I do not like
    that Sam-I-am!
    Do you like green eggs and ham?
    I do not like them,
    Sam-I-am.
    I do not like
    green eggs and ham.

    Would you like them
    here or there?

    I would not like them
    here or there.
    I would not like them
    anywhere.
    I do not like
    green eggs and ham.
    I do not like them,
    Sam-I-am.

    Would you like them
    in a house?
    Would you like them
    with a mouse?

    I do not like them
    in a house.
    I do not like them
    with a mouse.
    I do not like them
    here or there.
    I do not like them
    anywhere.
    I do not like green eggs and ham.
    I do not like them, Sam-I-am.

    Would you eat them
    in a box?
    Would you eat them
    with a fox?

    Not in a box.
    Not with a fox.
    Not in a house.
    Not with a mouse.
    I would not eat them here or there.
    I would not eat them anywhere.
    I would not eat green eggs and ham.
    I do not like them, Sam-I-am.

    Would you? Could you?
    In a car?
    Eat them! Eat them!
    Here they are.

    I would not,
    could not,
    in a car.

    You may like them.
    You will see.
    You may like them
    in a tree!

    I would not, could not in a tree.
    Not in a car! You let me be.

    I do not like them in a box.
    I do not like them with a fox.
    I do not like them in a house.
    I do not like them with a mouse.
    I do not like them here or there.
    I do not like them anywhere.
    I do not like green eggs and ham.
    I do not like them, Sam-I-am.

    A train! A train!
    A train! A train!
    Could you, would you,
    on a train?

    Not on a train! Not in a tree!
    Not in a car! Sam! Let me be!

    I would not, could not, in a box.
    I could not, would not, with a fox.
    I will not eat them with a mouse.
    I will not eat them in a house.
    I will not eat them here or there.
    I will not eat them anywhere.
    I do not eat green eggs and ham.
    I do not like them, Sam-I-am.

    Say!
    In the dark?
    Here in the dark!
    Would you, could you, in the dark?

    I would not, could not,
    in the dark.

    Would you, could you, in the rain?I would not, could not,
    in the rain.
    Not in the dark. Not on a train.
    Not in a car. Not in a tree.
    I do not like them, Sam, you see.
    Not in a house. Not in a box.
    Not with a mouse. Not with a fox.
    I will not eat them here or there.
    I do not like them anywhere!You do not like
    green eggs and ham?I do not
    like them,
    Sam-I-am.Could you, would you,
    with a goat?

    I would not,
    could not,
    with a goat!

    Would you, could you,
    on a boat?

    I could not, would not, on a boat.
    I will not, will not, with a goat.
    I will not eat them in the rain.
    I will not eat them on a train.
    Not in the dark! Not in a tree!
    Not in a car! You let me be!
    I do not like them in a box.
    I do not like them with a fox.
    I will not eat them in a house.
    I do not like them with a mouse.
    I do not like them here or there.
    I do not like them ANYWHERE!

    I do not like
    green eggs
    and ham!I do not like them,
    Sam-I-am.You do not like them.
    So you say.
    Try them! Try them!
    And you may.
    Try them and you may, I say.Sam!
    If you will let me be,
    I will try them.
    You will see.Say!
    I like green eggs and ham!
    I do! I like them, Sam-I-am!
    And I would eat them in a boat.
    And I would eat them with a goat…

    And I will eat them in the rain.
    And in the dark. And on a train.
    And in a car. And in a tree.
    They are so good, so good, you see!

    So I will eat them in a box.
    And I will eat them with a fox.
    And I will eat them in a house.
    And I will eat them with a mouse.
    And I will eat them here and there.
    Say! I will eat them ANYWHERE!

    I do so like
    green eggs and ham!
    Thank you!
    Thank you,
    Sam-I-am!

    I could not, would not, on a boat.
    I will not, will not, with a goat.
    I will not eat them in the rain.
    I will not eat them on a train.
    Not in the dark! Not in a tree!
    Not in a car! You let me be!
    I do not like them in a box.
    I do not like them with a fox.
    I will not eat them in a house.
    I do not like them with a mouse.
    I do not like them here or there.
    I do not like them ANYWHERE!

    I told you I want no damn
    green eggs and ham!
    So fuck off, Sam-I-am.

  3. #113
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    Ok, this whole post is absurdly ridiculous Jag.
    Because it made you look at all your negative word choices? If that made my post "absurd," then I'm glad.
    After reading your inspiring post about Ne, readers probably became so overjoyed at the potential, they flung themselves off an 18th floor balcony.

    I pointed out one negative quality that Ne causes in Ne-ers:
    Here. We. Go. Again. Ne CAUSES NOTHING.
    What's next, blaming Ne for a serial killer who can't stop killing because he has so many connections going on in his head?


    IT'S MY GODDAMN NE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH I CANNOT STOP!!!!!!!!

    My brain keeps connecting Martha Stewart to Gerbils to Feces to Gandhi to Pee Wee Herman to Lava Lamps to Richard- Fucking- Nixon to Goldfish to Huge Testicles!
    And the Oatmeal, oh God! The Oatmeal! Those Oscar Mayer Weiners are dancing with the Oatmeal!

    What if I put weiners in oatmeal?
    What if I put oatmeal inside weiners?
    What if I put oatmeal-stuffed weiners up the ass of a Kentucky Derby winning horse?


    WHAT IF I CAN'T STOP NE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MAKE IT STOP NOW!!!!!!!!!!!

  4. #114
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Because it made you look at all your negative word choices? If that made my post "absurd," then I'm glad.
    After reading your inspiring post about Ne, readers probably became so overjoyed at the potential, they flung themselves off an 18th floor balcony.
    With all due respect, you did ask me to list the positive traits of Ne. I'm starting to think that no matter what I say to you, you are going to respond crassly. I guess it's what you do rather than accept fault.

    Here. We. Go. Again. Ne CAUSES NOTHING.
    What's next, blaming Ne for a serial killer who can't stop killing because he has so many connections going on in his head?
    Here we go again. And gee, I thought it was the Ti-ers who got so caught up in silly semantics.

    Ne is a label that we assign to describe a certain type of cognition. Cognition some times manifests as behaviors. Therefore, it is not unfair to say that cognition described by Ne (and thus labeled Ne) causes a certain thought pattern, thereby causing a certain behavior. Ie, I think this way, I value these things, so I act this way. I still have yet to *blame* any functions for any lack of free will. Where you think I'm scapegoating, I'm merely attributing certain personality characteristics to certain functions (read: labels). What else are functions for, if not that?

    I have never once said, "It's not my fault; it's Ne's fault" (and as I demonstrated earlier, even if I did say this, it would still be implicitly blaming myself and thus not a very good method of scapegoating, by the definition of scapegoat). I am simply saying that the definition of Ne allows for us to see how what we call Ne yields certain traits in our cognition, personalities, and behaviors. In other words, I would never blame a serial killer's actions on Ne, but I could certainly use Ne as a term to describe why he took certain actions. It's the serial killer's fault that he does what he does, but Ne is a term that helps us communicate the analysis of what motivates his behavior.

    It would be nice if you could see things from my perspective here and try to understand what I'm saying, but you seem more excited about twisting my words in a way that makes me look idiotic rather than revealing any truth and merit behind them. I'm starting to think that it's just not possible to get through to you once you have even the slightest ill regard toward someone.

    I mean honestly, do I really need to keep spelling the same shit out for you? Are you actually that dense, or are you just being a pain because you enjoy frustrating people?

  5. #115
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I had an strong immediate reaction against this and had to think about it another 30 seconds or so before reaching a conclusion, since it definitely did not gib with my personal experience.

    I think the Ne primaries are the ones who are susceptible to this (your ENPs), considering the Si inferior.

    Because honestly a lot of INPs have decent Si, it's actually the tertiary "cop out" for us and we use it to hide when we're tired or scared of extroverting through (wait for it... wait for it...) ... Ne.
    I agree wholeheartedly with this. The behavior that I described is associated with weak, underdeveloped, inferior Si. INTPs are a lot more disciplined when it comes to their endeavors than us ENTPs.

    I see this in strategy games a lot. The INTPs that I know analyze and think through their steps a lot more than me and other ENTPs that I know and are much less likely than us ENTPs to make the same mistake twice. The INTPs seem more interested in accomplishing some goal towards understanding the system behind the game, so Ne just comes in to ask questions and push certain buttons that aid in understanding.

    For ENTPs, on the other hand, Ne eclipses Ti's analysis and just keeps exploring the surface rather than delving deeper, so we make silly moves just to see what happens, even if we have no reason behind our actions. We are much less focused on understanding the layers in a strategy game; instead, we just want to wing it the whole time, as this method yields more novelty for us.

    I'd avoid "ought to be" as a phrase, but I agree with your thinking wholeheartedly.... it's one of my larger weaknesses, and I have to forcibly shut down Ne in order to get anything done. If I don't concentrate, I'll float into brainstorm/connection mode again because it's just easier and non-committal in nature.
    Do you prefer "should be" rather than "ought to be"?

    But yeah, I have to really really concentrate to get Ne to stop exploring something new so as to have Ti aid in understanding the present situation on a deeper, more meaningful level. It can be frustrating, and I think I'm ADHD. (And ZOMG IT'S ALL Ne'S FAULT THAT I'M ADHD!!!)

  6. #116
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    And gee, I thought it was the Ti-ers who got so caught up in silly semantics.
    The cog processes cause nothing, Tesla. It has nothing to do with semantics.

  7. #117
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    The cog processes cause nothing, Tesla. It has nothing to do with semantics.
    Ok, well if that's all you've got to say to what I wrote, then you clearly didn't read it very well, so I'm done wasting my time with you here.

    Edit: Actually, I'll make one more move. What causes us to behave the way we do and value what we value?

  8. #118
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    Ok, well if that's all you've got to say to what I wrote, then you clearly didn't read it very well, so I'm done wasting my time with you here.
    I didn't read anything past your first line. It's pointless.
    Now, go blame what you do today on Ne.
    If you get pulled over for speeding, tell the policeman your Ne caused it.

    He'll love it.

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    Ok, well if that's all you've got to say to what I wrote, then you clearly didn't read it very well, so I'm done wasting my time with you here.

    Edit: Actually, I'll make one more move. What causes us to behave the way we do and value what we value?
    Our past
    Im out, its been fun

  10. #120
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Our past
    Some times, but what causes us to value past experience enough to let it influence our current values and behaviors?

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