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  1. #91
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Using your example of purchasing Oscar Meyer fun snack; I guess a Ne-dom could ask me if I wanted to purchase some, and I would say no. To which the Ne-dom asks me why, and I give a rough outline why I don't want it. Then the Ne-dom persistently keeps trying to convince me to buy the Oscar Meyer fun snack, coming up with different justifications, a new one everytime I say no and give some answer to each reason. From my point of view, it's more than clear that I don't want to buy the Oscar Meyer snake, and having to constantly to answer various different reasons why I don't want to seems rather unnecessary not to mention really really really really annoying; and has the effect of me not wanting to buy the Oscar Meyer fun snack even more(which is the opposite effect the Ne-dom is striving for).

    In the time we spent talking about why I don't want to buy the Oscar Meyer fun snack, we could've been looking at other stuff to buy. But no, we're still discussing the Oscar Meyer fun snack, along with other stuff I'm not interested in either. Example:"Oscar Meyer fun snack tastes good with X,Y,Z." I don't care about XYZ, or even if I do I don't see how that changes the fact I still don't want the Oscar Meyer fun snack - even with XYZ!

    Do you get what I'm trying to say?


    So basically they are generating novel possibilities about the same thing. Yes, I understand. I think this also deals with introverted judgement, and how we might arbitrate one definite thing, and then leap forth with multiple perspectives about it. It's basically the same argument, but with different modes of fluff to accompany it. I get this with ENXPs the most.

    So, would that mean that Ni explores different possibilities on a more internal basis, allowing for more information to be accumulated before finally making a judgement call with extraverted judgement? I mean, you already made it clear that you did not want the Oscar Meyer fun snack, but the Ne guy just wants to keep the floor open.

    It's very strange for me to articulate because Pe/Ji and Je/Pi could sound very similar when describing them, but only because they are the inverse of each other. They both judge and perceive, just by different attitudes, so it's difficult to explain using any sort of anecdote.

  2. #92
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Yes I often get that impression from discussing Ne-doms, where discussions get "derailed" before anything of real substance has been discussed on the original topic, which often can get irritating and seem like a waste of time. Now I'm not at all opposed to looking at different perspectives or connecting seemingly random issues to each other, as a Ni-dom I do that all the time. However, there's still an overall focus to a particular theme, since each element of what we're talking about is often an entire discussion in of itself.
    I find this a bit annoying also. I thought this was more of an I/E thing. Es are prone to breadth & Is to depth, or something like that.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  3. #93
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    +1

    So true. And we know it, on some level, yet we can't stop. Ne just won't accept the fact that Ne can't always change things. Past experience, showing that Ne doesn't work in that past situation, isn't enough evidence for an Ne dom to accept that Ne's approach won't work in a new situation that's similar to the past one. Ne doesn't learn from its mistakes. It's a rough cycle.
    In fairness there's flaws to Ni and pretty much every other function as well. I'm simply demonstrating an example of how Ne can seem "drowning" or less than pleasant to other people.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I find this a bit annoying also. I thought this was more of an I/E thing. Es are prone to breadth & Is to depth, or something like that.
    That's true. In this particular case, I guess we're comparing Extraverted Intuition with Introverted Intuition. So the distinction still holds up.

  4. #94
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    Ne just won't accept the fact that Ne can't always change things. Past experience, showing that Ne doesn't work in that past situation, isn't enough evidence for an Ne dom to accept that Ne's approach won't work in a new situation that's similar to the past one. Ne doesn't learn from its mistakes. It's a rough cycle.

    Ne is not a person. It's a cognitive process that varies in expression from person to person.
    It would be accurate if you took the above post and everywhere you see "Ne," insert "Tesla."
    Otherwise, all you are doing is refusing to take responsibility for your own behavior.

  5. #95
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    In fairness there's flaws to Ni and pretty much every other function as well. I'm simply demonstrating an example of how Ne can seem "drowning" or less than pleasant to other people.
    Well of course there are flaws to other [every] functions. I just was agreeing with you on your analysis of the flaws with Ne. I didn't mean to imply that Ne is more flawed than any of the other functions. Being an Ne dom myself, that would be quite silly of me.

  6. #96
    Sniffles
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    Yeah I know, but I had to say that anyways or else other people would claim I'm just hating on Ne.

  7. #97
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Ne is not a person. It's a cognitive process that varies in expression from person to person.
    It would be accurate if you took the above post and everywhere you see "Ne," insert "Tesla."
    Otherwise, all you are doing is refusing to take responsibility for your own behavior.
    Err, how is my own personality a scapegoat for my actions? It really doesn't make any sense for me to say "I know I suck, but it's my personality's fault." Duh it's my personality's fault! That's not a justification, scapegoat, or excuse; considering that we are our personalities, it's practically a tautological truth.

    The fact that I'm personifying Ne is just for ease of communication here. I do happen to do the things that you quoted me on, but so do other Ne-ers, so attributing a name to this type of behavior/cognition aids in behavioral/cognitive analysis that can be broadly applied to a number of people. I am not trying to *blame* my actions on Ne; I'm merely attributing my actions to Ne as a way to analyze and describe my behavior and fit it into a broad system.

    Now quit trolling me please.

  8. #98
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Ne is not a person. It's a cognitive process that varies in expression from person to person.
    It would be accurate if you took the above post and everywhere you see "Ne," insert "Tesla."
    Otherwise, all you are doing is refusing to take responsibility for your own behavior.
    that's hilarious. good reminder.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  9. #99
    Ginkgo
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    Fi has a headache. Where do I insert the Excedrin?

  10. #100
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    Err, how is my own personality a scapegoat for my actions? It really doesn't make any sense for me to say "I know I suck, but it's my personality's fault." Duh it's my personalities fault! That's not a justification, scapegoat, or excuse; considering that we are our personalities, it's practically a tautological truth.

    The fact that I'm personifying Ne is just for ease of communication here. I do happen to do the things that you quoted me on, but so do other Ne-ers. I am not trying to blame my actions on Ne; I'm merely attributing my actions to Ne.

    Now quit trolling me please.
    Accusing people of trolling you simply because they take issue with your post is not acceptable. If you don't know that how your cognitive processes manifest will differ from other people, then you should probably take the time to learn. To claim, "we can't stop" is not what Ne is, as a cognitive process.
    You can stop any behavior you want. It's called free will.

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