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  1. #121
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It's been done before.
    Members can do it again.
    did I miss that?
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  2. #122
    shadow boxer strawberries's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Two more things:

    1. There's a holdover influence from when the site was called MBTICentral.com. We changed the name to TypologyCentral after the owners of the MBTI material sent us a Cease and Desist letter. The site also was developed using INTPc as a template, which uses the type indicator. So the site has been evolving, and MBTI type indicator is part of a legacy system.

    2. The type indicator is used to keep certain forums private, and you will not be allowed into your private forum corresponding to your archetype (NT, NF, SP, or SJ) if you do not have a type listed or if it doesn't match the subform key. Sorry, but that's how the techies set it up.

    Can you explain what you specifically mean by "legitimizing MBTI," just so it's clear how specifically you think this small piece of MBTI-centered architecture is slanting members' perspectives? (I tend to view it more like subliminal advertising in impact, because the overt commentary by forum holders and mods is more skeptical, and overt beats subliminal every time.)
    hi jennifer

    by having a four character field for type appearing against every post a member makes the site is passively reinforcing notions that MBTI type is important, everyone is type-able and that people should reveal their type - that's what i mean by legitimising.

    a member won't necessarily come across skeptical posts by mods or members on MBTI or know the historical reasons for the site's design, but they will definitely see the type field every time someone posts and will soon realise that parts of the forum are restricted to certain types. i think these structural mechanisms influence the community's discourse and forum norms.

    of course there are other influences too and i'm not suggesting that skepticism is discouraged here, but the site's design struck me as being influencial when i read some members' justifications for being bothered that others don't always show their type - they say things like how is the site useful otherwise and that we are choosing to belong to a community etc. this suggests to me that there are certain expectations out there regarding member behaviour that go beyond the forum rules and ordinary social interaction. it's interesting to ponder how these expectations have been formed...well, it's interesting to me anyhow

  3. #123
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    did I miss that?
    Yeah, didn't we have a big to-do just a few months back about how beastly the N's were to the S's and how S's should have their own thread about being appreciated, etc?

    It seems to be a cycle.

    If some of us haven't seem too engaged, it's just because we're ridden the wheel around a few times already... but it doesn't mean we're not supportive of the efforts.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #124
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strawberries View Post
    a member won't necessarily come across skeptical posts by mods or members on MBTI or know the historical reasons for the site's design, but they will definitely see the type field every time someone posts and will soon realise that parts of the forum are restricted to certain types. i think these structural mechanisms influence the community's discourse and forum norms.
    That's actually my question. I actually agree with you about the foundational structure, which includes MBTI and thus it becomes part of forum fabric and assumption and underlying views that people might not be aware of.

    But how and how much does it actually impact norms? That's what I'm curious about -- whether the impact actually is substantial or negligible?

    Humor me a minute as I bring up a seemingly unrelated example. When I was researching the US support of circumcision about ten years ago, I ran across startling facts like circumcising baby boys decreases infection of the genitals by 50%. That sounds like a lot, conceptually. Then I saw the data and realized the number of cases went down from 11 out of 10,000 to 6 out of 10,000. Yeah, a difference of 5 cases. Out of 10,000. (Numbers might be off, but you get the idea, I hope.) Meanwhile, you're lopping off foreskins on 9994 boys who didn't need it.

    So conceptually the difference sounded huge; in true impact, it was negligible. The political activitists were the ones who took an ideology and reframed data to support their stance.

    Now grab that framework and drop it over this situation: Does it really make a quantitative difference in forum culture to scrub this, or is it just a throwaway field in which people can put their MBTI type in order to share it? Does it really have much of a realistic impact at all, even if theoretically it's contributing to members framing the site a certain way?

    of course there are other influences too and i'm not suggesting that skepticism is discouraged here, but the site's design struck me as being influencial when i read some members' justifications for being bothered that others don't always show their type - they say things like how is the site useful otherwise and that we are choosing to belong to a community etc. this suggests to me that there are certain expectations out there regarding member behaviour that go beyond the forum rules and ordinary social interaction. it's interesting to ponder how these expectations have been formed...well, it's interesting to me anyhow
    I think those things woud exist regardless of the type field. Fe perspectived people, for example, are going to see everything they do as contributing to a community. Fi perspectived people might feel like the MBTI field is something they can take or leave. And, realistically, Fi users dominate on this site, although the Fe prioritizers do have a voice... so again, people do whatever it is they do, and I don't personally think the field has much impact.

    I'd like to add other fields, honestly, just so people can share their info -- except we only have 1 or 2 techs and they're rarely around to make those changes, and I'm sure then we'd waste weeks arguing about which personality theories to include. The MBTI field is not much different to me personally than telling people where I live. It's just some other bit of personalizing data.

    Ps. hi to you too!
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Two more things:

    1. There's a holdover influence from when the site was called MBTICentral.com. We changed the name to TypologyCentral after the owners of the MBTI material sent us a Cease and Desist letter. The site also was developed using INTPc as a template, which uses the type indicator. So the site has been evolving, and MBTI type indicator is part of a legacy system.

    2. The type indicator is used to keep certain forums private, and you will not be allowed into your private forum corresponding to your archetype (NT, NF, SP, or SJ) if you do not have a type listed or if it doesn't match the subform key. Sorry, but that's how the techies set it up.

    Can you explain what you specifically mean by "legitimizing MBTI," just so it's clear how specifically you think this small piece of MBTI-centered architecture is slanting members' perspectives? (I tend to view it more like subliminal advertising in impact, because the overt commentary by forum holders and mods is more skeptical, and overt beats subliminal every time.)



    It's been done before.
    Members can do it again.

    There should not be any stigma attached to a type read.



    Egads! Now everything about you finally makes sense!!! *dance*

    ... I bet you have to be careful with the Q-Tips in the morning, though. They don't like being poked.
    I actually like this website because it's not commercialized like the owners of MBTI would otherwise make it. Commercial websites are generally fascist zombies about certain material being discussed because they can't afford to have their products associated with material that's too off base. However, when you're discussing MBTI and other psychology topics like we do here, you open the floor for just about anything conceivable, since you can see figments of psychology in all human behavior, kind of like anthropology.

    This forum is not an advertisement, which is a refreshing safe haven when you consider everything else on the internet and the world. Whenever you involve money, competition ensues, but it's aimed at preserving finances and not always what the consumer actually wants. Here, everyone's free to compete to preserve their own identity or truth, which makes the dynamics more interesting and real imo.

  6. #126
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    One of the things I did appreciate about this site is finding sensors who are actually interested in talking about what makes them tick, their thinking processes and what kind of communication styles they best respond to. That is something that I have not found available to me in real life, but since I spend the majority of my time with sensors, it is quite useful to know.

    I see the MBTI field in the profiles more like Jen. Interesting to complete the picture of the information I'm getting. However, things like country of origin or gender could explain just as much too.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    One of the things I did appreciate about this site is finding sensors who are actually interested in talking about what makes them tick, their thinking processes and what kind of communication styles they best respond to. That is something that I have not found available to me in real life, but since I spend the majority of my time with sensors, it is quite useful to know.

    I see the MBTI field in the profiles more like Jen. Interesting to complete the picture of the information I'm getting. However, things like country of origin or gender could explain just as much too.
    What do sensors do when you ask them how they orient themselves in real life? Do they shrug it off as useless tripe without any practical application?

  8. #128
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Most I know in real life think MBTI is hogwash unless they've been given reason to feel it would help them (eg major breakup that they want to understand better etc). In general, they are more "what is" people that "what ought to be" people. They tend to feel that rather than wishing things were different or trying to figure out why they aren't, it's more important to get on with the business of living. Therefore they are more likely to accept a person or situation at face value. I've also found that unless given a catalyst for thinking out why they do what they do, it's pretty far down the list of priorities. They're more likely to be out there doing, rather than reflecting on the things they've done in the past and what's motivated them to act or not act in certain ways. Therefore, when you ask them about it the response is usually something like, "I don't know, I've never really thought about it" or "Not sure". It's just kind of a non-issue or else they feel put on the spot like you're studying them or like you expect something more out of them than they've already offered and that you don't appreciate what you're already getting.

    Obviously, this is a gross generalization, just as intuitors are a widely varying group of people. That's just been my personal experience in situations where I am closer to the person and need to understand them better to make our interactions work or to give enough information to deal with the problem in a more informed way without jumping to unfair conclusions. It's mostly come up with a SO or my ISTJ dad or a close friend.

  9. #129
    shadow boxer strawberries's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post

    But how and how much does it actually impact norms? That's what I'm curious about -- whether the impact actually is substantial or negligible?
    not sure; but it's interesting to ponder

  10. #130
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    things like country of origin or gender could explain just as much too.


    Certain grammatical patterns are characteristic of various other languages. Tamske, for example, I'm convinced is Francophone (or perhaps mothered in some other romance language.) Some are characteristic of poorly educated Americans, too >.>
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

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