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Thread: Accents

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    french?
    Hey Eck... I am from Quebec. and I notice regional accents in the French spoken there.

    There must regional accents in France as well, no?

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    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    A lot of British speakers, particularly if they favour the variety of English known as Estuary, or the london speech from which it's derived, have actually largely done away with the hard "T" sound in favour of a sort of nasalised glottal stop.
    I wouldn't say largely done away with it. Most non-RP speaking British people use light glottal stops sometimes, as Americans actually do as well, and hard Ts the rest of the time. Cockneys often use very noticeable glottal stops and in a wider range of word positions than the rest of us, so the above could be argued of them, but it's seen as an inferior way of speaking that could cost you a job you're interviewed for, etc., it's not mainstream. Some Estuary speakers use them more often than average, but not as often as Cockneys. By definition, an Estuary speaker wouldn't use one in the word 'matter' for example, but probably in the word 'meant' if the next sound wasn't a vowel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by William K View Post
    You mean like pronouncing "bottle" as "bot-el" or just "bo-el"?
    "Bo-aw"

    Quote Originally Posted by compulsiverambler View Post
    I wouldn't say largely done away with it. Most non-RP speaking British people use light glottal stops sometimes (especially when speaking quickly or when the T is the last letter of the word), as Americans actually do as well, and hard Ts the rest of the time. Cockneys often use very noticeable glottal stops and in a wider range of positions than the rest of us, so the above might be true of them, but that's seen as an inferior way of speaking that could cost you a job you're interviewed for, etc., it's not mainstream. Some Estuary speakers use them more often than average, but not as often as Cockneys. By definition, an Estuary speaker wouldn't use one in the word 'matter' for example, but probably in the word 'meant' if the next sound wasn't a vowel.
    Depends on the Estuary speaker though, doesn't it? It's more of a broad (and spreading) linguistic tendency than a true dialect, I think. If the speaker is more middle-class (especially) and self-conscious about their communication the influence will probably be a lot lighter, and there may be an adjustment for audience - ie making a conscious effort to speak in a more rp style in a formal conversation, and perhaps deliberately relaxing or even exaggerating the estuary influence if down at a pub with friends watching the football. I don't think this applies to the traditional Estuary speakers so much though - would someone with a strong Essex or other southeastern, London-influenced accent really make that much effort to adjust?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    Hey Eck... I am from Quebec. and I notice regional accents in the French spoken there.

    There must regional accents in France as well, no?
    Yeah, but we Parisians looks down upon such heresies
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  5. #125
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    "Bo-aw"



    Depends on the Estuary speaker though, doesn't it? It's more of a broad (and spreading) linguistic tendency than a true dialect, I think. If the speaker is more middle-class (especially) and self-conscious about their communication the influence will probably be a lot lighter, and there may be an adjustment for audience - ie making a conscious effort to speak in a more rp style in a formal conversation, and perhaps deliberately relaxing or even exaggerating the estuary influence if down at a pub with friends watching the football. I don't think this applies to the traditional Estuary speakers so much though - would someone with a strong Essex or other southeastern, London-influenced accent really make that much effort to adjust?
    It's not really a case of adjusting. Estuary speakers by definition have some, but not all features of Cockney speech, and the use of the glottal stop in unusual places is one of the few features considered a conclusive boundary marker between the two. This from the BBC, with EE meaning Estuary English:

    Many native speakers are becoming more comfortable with 'dropping' a certain number of 't's, although most would still pronounce a 't' that comes between two vowels - thus city, not ci'y. If you find yourself dropping a 't' in the middle of a short word like this, you have gone 'beyond EE'!

    Source

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    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I have a rather typical Californian accent, not to be confused with the exaggerated surfer / valley girl stereotype of a CA accent. It's something like the generic American TV accent with a west coast twist here & there. There's a certain "rhythm" to a Californian's speech that makes it subtly different from the standard US accent. Although, to a non-American, it probably all sounds the same.
    No, I think I'm aware of the rhythm you're talking about, though only vaguely. It's one of the accents broadcast outside of the US a disproportionately large amount of the time, so I can tell the difference between a moderate Californian accent and GA, or at least I believe I can.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Yeah, but we Parisians looks down upon such heresies
    So among French speakers there are those who speak Parisian French, and those who speak French poorly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    So among French speakers there are those who speak Parisian French, and those who speak French poorly?
    I see you're a fast learner
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  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by compulsiverambler View Post
    It's not really a case of adjusting. Estuary speakers by definition have some, but not all features of Cockney speech, and the use of the glottal stop in unusual places is one of the few features considered a conclusive boundary marker between the two. This from the BBC, with EE meaning Estuary English:

    Many native speakers are becoming more comfortable with 'dropping' a certain number of 't's, although most would still pronounce a 't' that comes between two vowels - thus city, not ci'y. If you find yourself dropping a 't' in the middle of a short word like this, you have gone 'beyond EE'!

    Source
    Yeah, but remember the term tends to be used in two different senses - I think it originally applied to the accent of the working classes in the "home counties" near London, especially further down the Thames (hence the term Estuary). It's now become a widespread linguistic trend that's been adopted by the higher social classes, and speakers of whatever social background in other parts of the country, and I think you're referring more to this than the original usage.

    I wouldn't describe something like an Essex accent as Cockney, I doubt that would be accurate linguistically either; but I'm also fairly sure that traditional speakers in such areas drop the T to a similar extent. This is really what I was referring to. The broader use of the term seems to be referring more to people who are really standard English speakers with a greater or lesser degree of Estuary influence. The boundaries are so blurred I wouldn't like to try to define the latter kind too exactly; but certain features (like excessive T dropping) do seem to be a social and regional marker as much as anything: it's probably why they're considered non-prestigious.

    Anyway, I think it would be interesting for people to post their own voices on this thread so we could see what they were talking about. Is anyone brave enough?
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  10. #130
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    I have lived in kentucky all of my life. I dont say anything like "far tar"
    (AKA: fire tower) but I can sound "funny" with the "southern draw" im sure anyone who has talked to me on vent can tell...
    "I put the fires out."
    "you made them worse."
    "worse...or better?"

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