User Tag List

123 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 30

  1. #1
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    4,474

    Default Moralizing: and when it Becomes Oppressive

    I don't know if its because I am an NT or and NTP or just a reasonable person but I find the Moralizer oppressive. The character of the Moralizer is rigid. These are the type of people who seem unable or unwilling to listen. They seem to enter into a discussion with fixed ideas. They are not responsive but rather reactive. They try to bend you to there standards or otherwise want to punish you. They are self absorbed bullies.

    They might claim to want to change you, save you, or make you a better person. This is how they white wash endlessly criticizing and judging. Its as if this type of harshness is their pleasure in life. In truth their moral ideas stem from their own unhappiness and merely mask their desire to dominate those around them.

    Traditionally the Moralizers of the past where religious fundamentalist or those who used a religious dominated culture such as Salem during the witch-trials. Modernly, most moralizers do not preach religion but rather veils based some vague sense of values, political correctness or secular humanism. Sometimes its amusing the hypocrisy of some of these Moralizers as many of them have been the largest transgressors of moral turpitude yet in there little minds the frock of Moralizing somehow grants them indulgence or a one sided sanctuary.

    Is Moralizing type related? Where does it come from? How best is it to navigate around those oppressive moralizers in our lives.

    Discuss.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  2. #2

    Default

    I dont believe you can generalise like that, possibly some people do channel their personal unhappiness into religion, ideology or an avenue which permits them to cajol, control or dominate others but I dont believe that by the same token you can generalise that to all morality or all moralising individuals.

    The examples that you use, witch trials and the like, are extreme and exceptions rather than the rule, to dispense with morality because of these straw men is too much like throwing out the baby and the bath water.

    Critical thinking and judgements are crucially lacking in this day and age, whether left or right, its roundly condemned and I find the idea that you can not and should not make judgements or hold critical opinions, at least not share them if you do, but instead join in a phony compliance with whatever the prevailing trends are is instead oppressive.

    Its a kind of unconscious closing of the mind, along with tendencies to positively shun difficulty or effort, particularly in reasoning or accept worldviews which are not black and white, either/or, with us/agin us is seriously stifling public discourse or even free thinking.

    This is a very, very broad net approach to this topic because I suspect that in practice this is a myriad of topics and without a complete consensus on each in turn allowing for a clear cut between moralist position and alternative. For instance are you talking about drugs, work ethics, pro-social behaviour/altruism, sexuality, respect, family life or even taxes and the economy?

  3. #3
    The Duchess of Oddity Queen Kat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    MBTI
    E.T.
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    3,116

    Default

    I know many moralizers, but I think my granny is maybe the most moralizing moralizer I know. She's ISFJ.
    I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower. The TV was obviously on. I used to fly myself and I said, "There's one terrible pilot."
    - George W. Bush -


    SCUAI - 7w8 sx/sp - Chaotic Evil - Fucking Cute - ALIVE

    Blog. Read it, bitches.
    Questions? Click here
    If you don't agree about my MBTI type, you can complain about it here. I've had plenty of people telling me I'm something else, in my reputation box. That's annoying.

  4. #4
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    4,474

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Critical thinking and judgements are crucially lacking in this day and age, whether left or right, its roundly condemned and I find the idea that you can not and should not make judgements or hold critical opinions, at least not share them if you do, but instead join in a phony compliance with whatever the prevailing trends are is instead oppressive.
    I agree and I want to clarify that the oppressive trait is not application of morality, religious or other secular zeal, nor even judgmentalism per se. It is the absence of critical thinking or actively slamming the door closed on the critical thinking which you noted that I find cancerous.

    This brings to mind that a Moralizer often has a lazy mind. They are adverse to critical thinking or analysis. A red flag is that they not only fail to discuss the merits of others views (besides highlighting the cons if they even choose to make the effort beyond branding) but absent in their own views is any indepth analysis, simply conclusion and judgment. When they do offer analysis is comes off more as an indictment and not a true analysis of the issue at hand.


    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Kat View Post
    I know many moralizers, but I think my granny is maybe the most moralizing moralizer I know. She's ISFJ.
    I think that Js do have disposition to moralizing but do not necessarily have the market dominated on act by far. ISJs often are the ideal choir to preach to but is it more is often the original preacher some different than the automatons in his flock?
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  5. #5
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    4,474

    Default

    I like to clarify that the Moralizer type that I am speaking of need not be religious nor especially moral. Rather they like to use a distorted attack on anothers ethics or argumentum ad hominem directly or no. Often they will overreact and metaphorically try and kill a fly with a jack hammer.

    A person might notice that many of them appear to also show a physical stiffness or frumpiness and an inabiltiy to adapt and to enjoy.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  6. #6
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    EII
    Posts
    3,067

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    I don't know if its because I am an NT or and NTP or just a reasonable person but I find the Moralizer oppressive. The character of the Moralizer is rigid. These are the type of people who seem unable or unwilling to listen. They seem to enter into a discussion with fixed ideas. They are not responsive but rather reactive. They try to bend you to there standards or otherwise want to punish you. They are self absorbed bullies.

    They might claim to want to change you, save you, or make you a better person. This is how they white wash endlessly criticizing and judging. Its as if this type of harshness is their pleasure in life. In truth their moral ideas stem from their own unhappiness and merely mask their desire to dominate those around them.

    Traditionally the Moralizers of the past where religious fundamentalist or those who used a religious dominated culture such as Salem during the witch-trials. Modernly, most moralizers do not preach religion but rather veils based some vague sense of values, political correctness or secular humanism. Sometimes its amusing the hypocrisy of some of these Moralizers as many of them have been the largest transgressors of moral turpitude yet in there little minds the frock of Moralizing somehow grants them indulgence or a one sided sanctuary.
    Seems like you're not too bad at moralizing yourself!

  7. #7
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    8,193

    Default

    I just think you're butthurt over the flak you get for your PUA stuff. You invite it with your language and the terms you use. It's one thing to incorporate some of the tools it teaches into your own social utility belt, it's another to essentially become the bible thumper of PUA material.



  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    I agree and I want to clarify that the oppressive trait is not application of morality, religious or other secular zeal, nor even judgmentalism per se. It is the absence of critical thinking or actively slamming the door closed on the critical thinking which you noted that I find cancerous.

    This brings to mind that a Moralizer often has a lazy mind. They are adverse to critical thinking or analysis. A red flag is that they not only fail to discuss the merits of others views (besides highlighting the cons if they even choose to make the effort beyond branding) but absent in their own views is any indepth analysis, simply conclusion and judgment. When they do offer analysis is comes off more as an indictment and not a true analysis of the issue at hand.




    I think that Js do have disposition to moralizing but do not necessarily have the market dominated on act by far. ISJs often are the ideal choir to preach to but is it more is often the original preacher some different than the automatons in his flock?
    Villifying a particular type of person in the way you're doing its really likely to open up the conversation, its likely to close it down and have everyone agreeing, yeah, those "others" the insert the pet peeve or name are the worst.

    Not condemning it, just it'll resut in a pretty short thread.

    I reckon that the critical thinking you're suggesting is a good thing and not a characteristic or a moraliser is likely to be considered moralising itself in some quarter.

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    I just think you're butthurt over the flak you get for your PUA stuff. You invite it with your language and the terms you use. It's one thing to incorporate some of the tools it teaches into your own social utility belt, it's another to essentially become the bible thumper of PUA material.
    Social utility belt? That's awesome! Can I get one of those?

  10. #10
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    4,474

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I reckon that the critical thinking you're suggesting is a good thing and not a characteristic or a moraliser is likely to be considered moralising itself in some quarter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Seems like you're not too bad at moralizing yourself!
    Perhaps. However I think in the battle of ideas a concept or idea is open to critique as opposed to moralizing I am addressing as attacks on people. It was not the religious beliefs of the Salem Witchhunters which was most upseting rather there methods of imposing those beliefs.

    Perhaps even moralizing in our own behavior we can notice if so we should remove it. Myself included. Everyone has been guilty of moralizing at some time or another but it is the chronic moralizer or epidemic moralizing which is cancerous. However relax as I am not critiquing moralization in any specific individual but rather the act itself. Ultimately we all have to use judgements or consider biases but in healthy debate not only manners but critical thinking and analysis as well as a degree of tolerance should be fostered.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

Similar Threads

  1. So unpopular it becomes popular and other political quirks
    By Survive & Stay Free in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-14-2010, 06:09 PM
  2. [ISTJ] ISTJs and being good at distinguishing right and wrong and enforcing it
    By swordpath in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 01-04-2008, 08:41 PM
  3. Morals and Political leanings?
    By miss fortune in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 11-06-2007, 11:04 AM
  4. [MBTItm] When it comes to Love and Dating -- how do you roll?
    By CzeCze in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 10-27-2007, 04:56 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO