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  1. #21
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Nah. Any moralizer worth his/her weight in salt is very analytical.

    The only moral conclusions worth pressing are ones that have withstood every criticism you could imagine subjecting them, too.

    Also, if you want to moralize well, you have to be analytical so that you can be skilled at disassembling your opponent's defenses.
    This is true but too often Moralizing is used as a crutch. Maybe there is an acceptable moralizer stance when ethics are at the crux of the issue but many times they are not and moralization acts as a diversion. Also in instances when the issue is not the matter of debate but rather the facts are in the primary matter of dispute and credibility as to the facts is the issue that attacking credibility (which might sound like moralizing) is a valid issue.

    Unfortunately most moralizing is not analytical rather it is a form of demagoguery which includes prejudicial extraneous facts/accusations often proposed by those uneducated in the topic of discussion. It dumbs things down and the market place of ideas (not to mention manners) are damaged.
    For example when news programs have talking heads relating to important liberties often a moralizing pundit (often the religious right but more and more often a secular emotional charged extraneous issue e.g often its starts with "but what about the children?") will attempt to side trace the issue with emotionally prejudicial side argument which often has very little to due with the key debate.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  2. #22
    Senior Member kevrawlings's Avatar
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    Best moralizer of all time - C.S. Lewis

  3. #23
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    treat others as you want to be treated, moral enough?

  4. #24
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevrawlings View Post
    Best moralizer of all time - C.S. Lewis
    C.S. Lewis is a religious writer but I would not call him a moralizer. He is very analytical and is clear on his points. A T dom. In other words he is moral but not a moralizer. I would go so far as to say that he is the antithesis of a moralizer. I have great respect for C.S. Lewis although I do not agree with all of his teachings.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  5. #25
    Senior Member burymecloser's Avatar
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    I think people in this thread are using the term "Moralizer" in radically different ways.

    Going with my initial interpretation based on the OP
    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    I don't know if its because I am an NT or and NTP or just a reasonable person but I find the Moralizer oppressive. The character of the Moralizer is rigid. These are the type of people who seem unable or unwilling to listen. They seem to enter into a discussion with fixed ideas. They are not responsive but rather reactive. They try to bend you to there standards or otherwise want to punish you. They are self absorbed bullies.

    They might claim to want to change you, save you, or make you a better person. This is how they white wash endlessly criticizing and judging. Its as if this type of harshness is their pleasure in life. In truth their moral ideas stem from their own unhappiness and merely mask their desire to dominate those around them.

    Traditionally the Moralizers of the past where religious fundamentalist or those who used a religious dominated culture such as Salem during the witch-trials. Modernly, most moralizers do not preach religion but rather veils based some vague sense of values, political correctness or secular humanism. Sometimes its amusing the hypocrisy of some of these Moralizers as many of them have been the largest transgressors of moral turpitude yet in there little minds the frock of Moralizing somehow grants them indulgence or a one sided sanctuary.

    Is Moralizing type related? Where does it come from? How best is it to navigate around those oppressive moralizers in our lives.

    Discuss.
    I find this type of character immensely frustrating: the one who won't listen to reason, who is convinced they know the right answer and cannot be persuaded otherwise even in the face of overwhelming evidence. I suspect this frustration runs especially high in Ti-doms (which does not mean Ti-doms are immune to such behavior themselves!), and I suspect that "Moralizing", by this definition, is indeed at least somewhat type-related, though I wouldn't want to guess at the specifics.

    As far as the last question, I simply don't talk to them. Someone who steers the conversation and is uninterested in what you have to say isn't worth talking to. Occasionally I'll engage if they seem to be unduly influencing people, or -- particularly online -- to publicly embarrass them (I'm an asshole like that). I'm on another message board with someone who constantly posts things that make no sense, and I can't seem to resist pointing out his errors. Even when it's an obvious waste of my time, I have a hard time letting untruths go unchallenged.

  6. #26
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    My personal experience is that when someone calls me a moralizer, it's very similar to them calling me judgemental or close-minded. It just means they're pissed at me for not agreeing with them.
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  7. #27
    Senior Member burymecloser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    My personal experience is that when someone calls me a moralizer, it's very similar to them calling me judgemental or close-minded. It just means they're pissed at me for not agreeing with them.
    Ah, but if you're not open-minded about the possibility of being closed-minded, isn't that awfully judgmental of you? Or something like that.

    I don't think the type of person described in the OP realises they're closed-minded. My interpretation of the term "Moralizer", as set forth in the OP, was someone who has an agenda and is interested in converting people to her/his viewpoint, but who is not interested in genuine conversation or in listening to other ideas and perspectives. This person is a phony, and has an almost sociopathic lack of regard for others. Alternatively, they could just be utterly without the capacity for critical thinking.
    i just want to be a sweetheart

  8. #28
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burymecloser View Post
    I find this type of character immensely frustrating: the one who won't listen to reason, who is convinced they know the right answer and cannot be persuaded otherwise even in the face of overwhelming evidence. I suspect this frustration runs especially high in Ti-doms (which does not mean Ti-doms are immune to such behavior themselves!), and I suspect that "Moralizing", by this definition, is indeed at least somewhat type-related, though I wouldn't want to guess at the specifics.
    Stubborn and judgmental people are difficult enough but I believe my understanding of the Moralizer makes them more oppressive because they persecute you for not agreeing with them. That there is something morally wrong with you because you somehow allegedly touched on areas that violated their ideals and values and they are quick to let you and anyone who happens to be in the vicinity know of the apparent moral shortcoming.

    Of course that can happen to us all every once and a while but the moralizer (either intentionally or by predisposition) does this constantly. Their mind is lazy because they choose demagoguery over logic.

    Yeah its hard not to take their incessant criticisms, bullying, overreactions and poisoned comments seriously. I have tried to show several of them the errors of their ways but I don't suggest this course and I think I will stop trying because they will just slam you for even attempting. As long as it seems contrary to my style I have to agree with burymecloser and stop forgiving and challenging their way of thinking and simply avoid them.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  9. #29
    Cat Wench ReadingRainbows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    My personal experience is that when someone calls me a moralizer, it's very similar to them calling me judgemental or close-minded. It just means they're pissed at me for not agreeing with them.
    I noticed this too spongey!
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    St. Stephen took rocks and St. Sebastian took arrows. You only have to take some jerks on an internet forum. Nut up.

  10. #30
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    I think you can usually identify them by the way they ask questions. Instead of asking "What do you think of X?" or "Do you think X is good or bad?", they would say "X is bad, isn't it?".

    Whereupon the other lawyer would say "Objection, your honour! Leading the witness"
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