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View Poll Results: What would you choose?

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  • I would select a box.

    12 18.46%
  • I would leave the boxes alone.

    53 81.54%
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  1. #41
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    By leaving the boxes, I am not judging anyone or deciding what they deserve, and that is precisely the point.

    And I disagree with your interpretation of free will, which seems to remove moral responsibility from people, but I think that is not a topic for the bonfire.
    Okies. If this were a real bonfire, I would be the kid who makes all the akward silences.
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  2. #42
    Member TiNe_2_IP's Avatar
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    I don't believe this scenario is as hypothetical as it sounds.
    I believe the box marked 'hell' has already been opened. Seems most of those here have not personally experienced the full extent of 'hell on earth' and I hope you never do but speak to someone else with a different experience of life and they may ask 'how can it get any worse?'

    Why does 'perfection' = 'no more learning'?

    I believe the 'perfection' box is still there to be opened, I'm just glad that humans will not be entrusted with that duty or decision and the model of what that entails will not be formulated by humans because we are clearly incapable and unequipped to make those kind of judgements.

    Without elaborating on my reasons for such a statement, I can say this:
    I'm coming out.......yes I believe in God!

    Yeah, yeah! I can hear the incredulity from here. And please keep your sarcastic comments to yourself.
    'It's the question that drives us, Neo. It's the question that brought you here.... The answer is out there, Neo, and it's looking for you, and it will find you if you want it to.' Trinity

    Agent Brown: 'Perhaps we are asking the wrong questions.'

    'Maybe the questions are right, we just don't like the answers'

  3. #43

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    This seems pretty simple to me, If opening the wrong box could produce a whole eternity of hell on earth I would leave the boxes alone. I would not risk the chances of causing such irreparable and eternal damage.
    Besides a better world will be found in others yearning to make it better and coming together to do something about it. If we are suddenly presented with a "perfect" universe, we would only search for something to complain about only to mess it up again.

    Brilliant question, I really enjoyed it!

    -Georgi

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentMind View Post
    What do you mean? I'm guessing you want me to say what I would do. Hrm, I'm still undecided. I'm leaning towards opening a box though.
    This isn't what I meant actually...It was a joke and I was being sarcastic... I run into this problem a lot IRL with my INTJ friend though.. so I'm used to it.

    Hmmm, how can I explain it... okay...The first sentence I said was actually only referring to the reply you gave Sytpg.. You boldly said what you felt and didn't hold back... So I was trying to be sarcastic by implying you did the opposite and sarcastically asking.. "Why aren't you telling us what you really feel"... "Why you holding back? (that make sense? ) It would've worked better in person...After I read that... I thought to myself... oh sh*t.... I bet he's gonna take that literally.

    I'm glad I was misinterpreted though... because now I understand a lot better where your coming from and I completely understand your perspective...

    I think the comment Zpowers made earlier about the matter of perspective and how much a person has to lose is the most important point... If you would have asked me this question five years ago, I would have said hell yeah I'll open a box, even if there was only a 5% chance of good coming out of it.. because I had absolutely nothing to lose..

    I spoke about this a little bit in other posts before...but I'm actually a terminal disease survivor. (a very painful stomach disease).. So if you would have asked me then... I wouldn't have hesitated for a second... But now that I'm not sick anymore... perspective makes the choice harder to make... not that my life is all fine and dandy now...it still sucks... but at least I'm not living in "Hell on Earth" anymore. (using the term that someone stated earlier).. So I guess situation and perspective is pretty much what it boils down to.. I get where your coming from though..

    I can totally picture you causing all the awkward silences at the bonfire.

    *BTW... you're f*ckin out.... I'm f*ckin in.

  5. #45
    L'anima non dimora Donna Cecilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentMind View Post
    I think those two can work together and that they aren't exactly opposite when used correctly.
    Very few people does. I don´t conisder gambling to be the correct way.


    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentMind View Post
    I don't know why everyone stops with the 'world' when they think about a perfect world, because I always think about the way in which the body can be perfected in order to fit into that world - having said that, I don't believe in perfection, never have, never will. I do believe in better and that somewhere along the way there might be a best, though.
    Because it defines each person´s environment. World is a subjecive concept, made not only of geographical places, but of people, ideas, their own sense of what´s right and wrong with it. So, each person will have a different "world" in their eyes. As for fitting into the world, you just do it unconsciously. But, again, there are aspects of the world which can be up to you to change.


    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentMind View Post
    What's so great about growing? Hell, I'd imagine you would be tired of it of you had grown so much that you were perfect. I don't believe we can ever stop growing though.
    You wouldn´t be perfect, you would had given up. And that´s what the quote is about. If you, at some point in life, think you have reached perfection, and stop your personal growth, somebody will keep trying, and get better than you are and prove you wrong, so you´ll have to work even harder to catch up.


    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentMind View Post
    They will have learned everything though, so how would they bring about their own doom? Wouldn't they know how to solve that? Just saying.
    There is no way to learn everything. How can the world be perfect if ruled by imperfect beings? They will be on forever making mistakes and solving them. I´m not mentioning only the faults that can be fixed. I´m including those which can´t.

    "An intelligent hell would be better than a stupid paradise."
    Victor Hugo



    LII/INTj (Analyst) - 1w9 Sp/Sx - RC|O|EI - Melancholy/Choleric

  6. #46
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Leave them alone.

    Perfect world would be shit just like Hell. There is no good without bad. And there is no bad without good. To appreciate either you need both in the same plane.
    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentMind View Post
    No it wouldn't. Why do you think it would be Hell?
    I actually find this paragraph somewhat revolting. To say that good cannot be appreciated without bad, seems to me, to defeat the purpose of good in the first place because bad somehow becomes a required thing that cannot be overcome.
    I doubt you would be glorifying bad if you had been raised in some situation that, we all could agree, was horrifying.
    This is religious-defeatist-privileged, nonsense.
    I've actually another problem with Sytpg's statement. It's as if there is conservation of goodness. You can't do anything good without causing some evil somewhere, and vice versa. Which makes any action neutral...
    That's simply not true. Everybody can try to work towards the "Heaven" world. That's actually what I was thinking when I first filled in the question. With every choice we make, we open little boxes like the ones in the question. The difference is that, in real life, there are more choices, so we can try and learn and improve. It's not that good when we make the right choice, it's not that bad when we make the wrong one. For these smaller stakes I want to play. Repeatedly.

    I'm firmly convinced everybody wants to work towards the "Heaven" world... only the views are different. What if your Heaven is a world without, say, gay people? Or a world where you are the richest? That's when Hell ensues.
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

  7. #47
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedruM View Post
    This isn't what I meant actually...It was a joke and I was being sarcastic... I run into this problem a lot IRL with my INTJ friend though.. so I'm used to it.

    Hmmm, how can I explain it... okay...The first sentence I said was actually only referring to the reply you gave Sytpg.. You boldly said what you felt and didn't hold back... So I was trying to be sarcastic by implying you did the opposite and sarcastically asking.. "Why aren't you telling us what you really feel"... "Why you holding back? (that make sense? ) It would've worked better in person...After I read that... I thought to myself... oh sh*t.... I bet he's gonna take that literally.


    I think the comment Zpowers made earlier about the matter of perspective and how much a person has to lose is the most important point... If you would have asked me this question five years ago, I would have said hell yeah I'll open a box, even if there was only a 5% chance of good coming out of it.. because I had absolutely nothing to lose..

    I spoke about this a little bit in other posts before...but I'm actually a terminal disease survivor. (a very painful stomach disease).. So if you would have asked me then... I wouldn't have hesitated for a second... But now that I'm not sick anymore... perspective makes the choice harder to make... not that my life is all fine and dandy now...it still sucks... but at least I'm not living in "Hell on Earth" anymore. (using the term that someone stated earlier).. So I guess situation and perspective is pretty much what it boils down to.. I get where your coming from though..
    Yeah, the world is all messed up.

    I can totally picture you causing all the awkward silences at the bonfire.
    I used to do it all the time when I wasn't a hermit. It didn't bother me though.

    *BTW... you're f*ckin out.... I'm f*ckin in.
    You wish. I'm the man who has the ball.
    Last edited by Lady_X; 01-07-2014 at 12:44 PM.
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  8. #48
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donna Cecilia View Post
    You wouldn´t be perfect, you would had given up. And that´s what the quote is about. If you, at some point in life, think you have reached perfection, and stop your personal growth, somebody will keep trying, and get better than you are and prove you wrong, so you´ll have to work even harder to catch up.
    I thought we were talking about this hypothetical perfection I've created. It's no longer a matter of, for these people in my question, 'thinking' they are perfect because they absolutely 'are' perfect.

    But sure, in an imperfect world, entertaining thoughts of perfection will ruin you quickly.

    There is no way to learn everything. How can the world be perfect if ruled by imperfect beings? They will be on forever making mistakes and solving them. I´m not mentioning only the faults that can be fixed. I´m including those which can´t.
    Like I said, these beings would have to be perfect to exist in a perfect world. This is why I mentioned that people simply stop at the perfect 'world' without imagining how the body would fit into that world.

    Also, perfection, by definition, is faultless.
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  9. #49
    Senior Member Eckhart's Avatar
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    I would leave the boxes alone. I would hide the key somewhere instead of destroying it for the uncommon case that the world is going to vanish / whatever anyway (what do I know, climatic disaster, nuclear war etc.), so there is at least a gamble chance to save the world.

    Though, then there is again that dilemma what would be worse, if the world is going to vanish or the not named horrors the OP had in mind. So that makes things more difficult again.

  10. #50
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentMind View Post
    I actually find this paragraph somewhat revolting. To say that good cannot be appreciated without bad, seems to me, to defeat the purpose of good in the first place because bad somehow becomes a required thing that cannot be overcome.
    I am with stypg....there is a yin/yang associated with good/bad. I suppose I dont believe in pure evil-simply the world as it stands? Thus even things that seem bad are not inherently evil-simply aspects of reality...pain, disease, suffering are all aspects of reality as are beauty, pleasure, and joy. They are components of the complex evolved biological system of which we are simply a small piece-an endless continuity. For me, the complexity of the system-both good and bad aspects-are to be valued for how they interlock and form reality.

    Thus I can see the beauty in the ugliness of the world and appreciate it as part of a whole.

    We of course should do what we can to reduce suffering and improve our reality. And neither box would be opened. (Although Ne has this fleeting desire to try and climb into the boxes.)

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