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  1. #1
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Default A Sensors guide to Intuition*

    * According to what i have been reading up about the subject.

    I remember not long after joining this site that Jennifer had said (and i am paraphrasing here) .. 'Everyone is intuitive but as some people grow they stop trusting it'. This has always stuck in my head for some reason, maybe it is because it's true.

    I have grow up to trust logic and common sense .. Any form of symbolism is just some fictitious ploy and coincidence is just a figment of my imagination.

    At work recently a colleague had brought in some books .. Knowing that i enjoy all things 'New Age' she came specifically to me to tell me to have a look and borrow any that i thought would be of interest.

    One book that jumped out at me was 'Practical Intuition' so i took it home and placed it on my book shelf along with copious others .. I picked it up the other day and started reading .. What is good about this book is that there are numerous exercises which don't give a question then you find the answer .. It's arse backwards .. You write your answer not knowing what the question is .. Then later you are given the question. This is apparently done so so that you don't influence your answer with emotions. Makes sense.

    I have finally got to exercise 14 and it hit me out of nowhere .. I know what i am supposed to be doing .. You use all your senses to come up with something .. A thought, an image, a symbol, a smell, a taste then somehow make this tangible, not through judgment but through perception. It is simply to see outside the box ..

    I'll give you the example used in Exercise 14 ..

    She says .. Pretend to answer the question while using all your senses to confirm it (you don't know the actual question). You don't have to make any kind of conscious effort. You don't even have to think about it. Simply pretend as you read my words your senses are perceiving the information you need to answer the question. The idea is not to guess what the answer or even what the question is. You want fragments of information.

    So i took a deep breath, closed my eyes and noticed what i could hear, smell, see in my minds eye.

    This was what i wrote ... Mouth watering. A humming noise from what seemed like a washing machine/dryer. A box, no it's a room with wooden floors. A place of living/a home. I feel ecstatic and joyous. I have done this before, oh the adventure. I am tired of traveling. I see a beautiful bedroom where i want to sleep. The bed is so comfortable.

    (The book states that you should not discredit anything that comes to your mind but to note EVERYTHING, it is all important and not to over-think any of it.)

    As i was writing all the above down in a notebook, it quickly dawned on me that although i didn't have a clue what the question was .. I knew it somehow from my words. I waited for the author to tell me what the question was .. It was my first question i noted from exercise 2 and my question i wrote was 'Is a move to Canada inevitable?'

    This is apparently intuition.

    Intuition is all about coincidences and symbolism and putting the pieces together .. Being human beings we are all prone to mistakes and although someones Ne or Ni is sending off signals about another person, it can also be a misinterpretation.

    Now this is what i find somewhat funny about all this .. I picked out this book because it jumped at me .. I've had a lot of coincidences in my life that i have just written off. I asked on another thread if something that had happened to me was sensing or intuition and i was told it was a coincidence and this coming from an intuitive i find slightly alarming .. As at no time was the idea ever conceived (unless this person chose not to write this) that there could be other interpretations to what i had asked .. So how can people come to this site, claim to be an intuitive .. Then CHOOSE to be closed minded to other alternatives .. That is not what intuition is all about.

    So the conclusion i have come to at present is that Intuition is no different to Sensing as you must use your senses to intuit whatever it is that is coming to you. Some people just trust tangible information more than others.

    What do you think??

    Thanks.
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  2. #2
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    You've got it right at most points, I think.
    The most common misconception about "intuition" is that it is something mystical, something which knows things which you couldn't possibly have observed or reasoned. That's not the "intuition" used in MBTI. Your description about something connecting things is much more to the mark. You can "know" things because you subconsciously connected the dots, but intuition connects wrong dots as well as right ones. You need the judging functions to sort though them. Moreover, the dots need to come from somewhere, and that's where sensing comes in.

    MBTI talks about Se and Ne (Si and Ni), but I think there is a continuum between it... from very concrete (a real apple) through somewhat more abstract/general (the word "apple" which can actually point to any apple, not just that green lopsided one you've got there) up till totally in the idea world (numbers, commutative groups,...). When trying to understand ideas, we constantly shift among the S-N axis: giving examples of a general concept, generalize again, ask if the same concept holds for some other examples, etc.

    Edit: here http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...efinition.html is a good thread about S vs N, made by an S; so probably less abstract than what I'm trying to do here
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

  3. #3
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    I think some of the problems you are having come from the differances in the way the word intuition is used. It's common, everyday meaning is rather different to it's technical meaning in function theory.

    The common meaning, often discribed as knowing something without really being able to discribe the source of the knowledge, has little in common with the technical meaning - usually put down as a preferance for dealing with abstract information.

    If I have a gut feeling for what somebody is about to do next, that has nothing to do with my Ni. Predicting someones actions is a skill, and skills are not directly linked to functions. The functions indicate what is likely to be most important to a person. Skills come from what I spend my life doing, even if it is something I'd rather not be doing!

    If I'm not sure exactly why I believe something, it most likely indicates that I am acting on instinct rather than formalised training or methodology.

    My Ni simply represents a preferance for gathering information by contemplative thought on abstract matters, usually on matters of truth and perception of reality. I spend much of my time trying to sort out in my head what is absolutely true, what is only true because people believe it to be so and what isn't true regardless of what people may think. The other thing I do is consider what might be exist oneday, and if it can be made to happen.

    Si is a little different. It is a preference for looking inwards to find what which is solid. It concerns itself less with truth and more with reliability. Si wishes to know how much faith can be placed in an idea, fact or principal. When put to the test, will it work? Si likes it's information to be certified, which is why many SJs struggle with intuition in the common sense of word. A hunch comes with no guarantees, so many SJs shy away from relying on them. How can you trust an idea if you don't know where it comes from? Learning to trust a hunk takes practice for SJs, especially the ISJs.

    SPs are more liable to use hunches. They like to learn by direct experimentation. If they go with a hunch, and find it works, they are more likely to do so again in the future. It doesn't turn them into intuitives, though.

  4. #4
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    My Ni simply represents a preferance for gathering information by contemplative thought on abstract matters, usually on matters of truth and perception of reality. I spend much of my time trying to sort out in my head what is absolutely true, what is only true because people believe it to be so and what isn't true regardless of what people may think. The other thing I do is consider what might be exist oneday, and if it can be made to happen.
    There is no judging in that? That sounds an awful lot how I would describe my Fi working with Ne...
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  5. #5
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    There is no judging in that? That sounds an awful lot how I would describe my Fi working with Ne...
    Depends upon what you mean by the term judging... When I evaluate something for truth, I am not making any moral judgement about it. I'm simply looking to see where the idea came from and what, if anything, makes it valid. As is common with INJs, when presented with something that has no objective, absolute truth to it (such as the endless debates about abortion or whatever) I tend towards neutrality. Ni is usually paired up with Te, so I tend to jude such things by what can be done with them, or what needs to be done with them.

  6. #6
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    Depends upon what you mean by the term judging... When I evaluate something for truth, I am not making any moral judgement about it. I'm simply looking to see where the idea came from and what, if anything, makes it valid. As is common with INJs, when presented with something that has no objective, absolute truth to it (such as the endless debates about abortion or whatever) I tend towards neutrality. Ni is usually paired up with Te, so I tend to jude such things by what can be done with them, or what needs to be done with them.
    I mean just that - reasoning on the validity and what something actually means. Although I cannot say I am neutral on issues which supposedly have no empirical evidence of truth, but I tend to be neutral on issues which seem to "miss the point" or not have much meaning.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  7. #7
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I mean just that - reasoning on the validity and what something actually means. Although I cannot say I am neutral on issues which supposedly have no empirical evidence of truth, but I tend to be neutral on issues which seem to "miss the point" or not have much meaning.
    One of the differances between Ne and Ni is that as an extroverted function Ne needs more external stimulus. Ne follows things. When given an argument it will jump on to see where it goes. If it misses the point and goes nowhere then it is boring and seems pointless.

    To the Ni user the point isn't so much where the idea is going so much as where it has been . Why was it suggested in the first place? If it misses the point, why did the speaker come out with it?

    For example, consider this question "Why is the president of America powerfull." Take a moment to consider your answer before you read mine...



    I'd say that the president is powerfull because people believe that his is powerfull. His influence is derived from the fact that enough people feel they need to obey him. So many people feel this way that even those who do not find that they cannot ignore him because the believers act to enforce his will.

    If people stopped believing in his authority, his power vanishes. If the police and army do whatever they please and the accountants stop processing the payments he approves, what becomes of him? He is reduced to just being another man, screaming at an indifferent crowd.

    This is the source of most authority, though the reason for the belief vary, it is the belief that creates the effect. In the medievil ages the pope was only powerfull because of the way people reacted to his proclimations. Being excomunicated to cause all sorts of political problems for a king, even though it changed nothing in the observable universe because his subjects attitude towards him changed, as might that of neighbouring kingdoms. The threat of excomunication could even effect an aetheist because he might fear a lynch mob even if he wasn't worried about hell.

    What answer occured to you?

  8. #8
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    One of the differances between Ne and Ni is that as an extroverted function Ne needs more external stimulus. Ne follows things. When given an argument it will jump on to see where it goes. If it misses the point and goes nowhere then it is boring and seems pointless.

    To the Ni user the point isn't so much where the idea is going so much as where it has been . Why was it suggested in the first place? If it misses the point, why did the speaker come out with it?
    I agree with the Ne & Ni distinction....as a Fi-dom though, I tend to question the motivation of why someone would suggest something (especially their emotional motivation). I'm actually making a post for my blog on how to argue with an INFP effectively which touches on that...

    For example, consider this question "Why is the president of America powerfull." Take a moment to consider your answer before you read mine...

    I'd say that the president is powerfull because people believe that his is powerfull. His influence is derived from the fact that enough people feel they need to obey him. So many people feel this way that even those who do not find that they cannot ignore him because the believers act to enforce his will.

    If people stopped believing in his authority, his power vanishes. If the police and army do whatever they please and the accountants stop processing the payments he approves, what becomes of him? He is reduced to just being another man, screaming at an indifferent crowd.

    This is the source of most authority, though the reason for the belief vary, it is the belief that creates the effect. In the medievil ages the pope was only powerfull because of the way people reacted to his proclimations. Being excomunicated to cause all sorts of political problems for a king, even though it changed nothing in the observable universe because his subjects attitude towards him changed, as might that of neighbouring kingdoms. The threat of excomunication could even effect an aetheist because he might fear a lynch mob even if he wasn't worried about hell.

    What answer occured to you?
    My first thought was that people have given him power, and if people did not believe he had the rights to make certain decisions, then he would not have those rights. Slightly different from yours, but similar. For instance, I question the moral right of the military to kill people. I don't see how the government sanctioning war makes killing people morally acceptable in anyway - the government is simply people who have been given power by other people. So it's a similar reasoning, IMO, but probably a different process to get to that conclusion.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  9. #9
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    My initial thought about this was... "Whoa! This is too detailed!"

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  10. #10
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I agree with the Ne & Ni distinction....as a Fi-dom though, I tend to question the motivation of why someone would suggest something (especially their emotional motivation). I'm actually making a post for my blog on how to argue with an INFP effectively which touches on that...
    Is that an advert?


    My first thought was that people have given him power, and if people did not believe he had the rights to make certain decisions, then he would not have those rights. Slightly different from yours, but similar. For instance, I question the moral right of the military to kill people. I don't see how the government sanctioning war makes killing people morally acceptable in anyway - the government is simply people who have been given power by other people. So it's a similar reasoning, IMO, but probably a different process to get to that conclusion.
    Thanks for playing along. As it happens, I was less interested in your conclusion than what you did with it. After all, functions aren't opinions. Your section above shows the marks of Ne, in that you start off on one subject (power of the president), then branch out to a related but different topic (the morality of military action). Your Ne went looking for observable implications of the presidents power.

    If you go back and look at my bit, you will see that my thoughts branched in a different way, looking for other things that had the same fundamental routes. The pope was the example I mentioned. My Ni concerned itself with the causes rather than the subject itself.

    This is perhaps themost readily apparent differance between Ne and Ni. IK think there are others, but they are a little harder to pin down!

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