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  1. #21
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    When in social situations, applying logic is an illogical action as it does not take into consideration the massive instability of such a situation. Hence, logic can be illogical.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member ObeyBunny's Avatar
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    When your superior (like a teacher or a boss) who is full of himself has just spoken some sort of untruth (like mentioning that you can see a raccoon with rabies froth at the mouth.)

    Under normal circumstances, correcting someone logical because it benefits society as a whole by making the individuals who make it up just a little bit smarter. However, under the aforementioned proposed case of someone being full of themselves, correcting their fallacy would harm you and your superior would still not change his opinion because now he’s simply trying to defy you.

    Logical thing: telling someone the truth when they’re wrong.
    Illogical thing: letting someone stay intellectually in the dark.


    Special case:
    Logical thing: Letting someone believe a false piece of information
    Illogical thing: Telling them the truth.


    Logic = Illogic
    Q: "What is the process of seeking the truth?"
    A: "Distilled liquor"

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    A: "Between a starving prostitute and a steak sandwich."

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    A:He would build a cage, step inside, and rename his new location as "outside."

  3. #23
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ObeyBunny View Post
    When your superior (like a teacher or a boss) who is full of himself has just spoken some sort of untruth (like mentioning that you can see a raccoon with rabies froth at the mouth.)

    Under normal circumstances, correcting someone logical because it benefits society as a whole by making the individuals who make it up just a little bit smarter. However, under the aforementioned proposed case of someone being full of themselves, correcting their fallacy would harm you and your superior would still not change his opinion because now he’s simply trying to defy you.

    Logical thing: telling someone the truth when they’re wrong.
    Illogical thing: letting someone stay intellectually in the dark.


    Special case:
    Logical thing: Letting someone believe a false piece of information
    Illogical thing: Telling them the truth.


    Logic = Illogic
    Logic =/= expediency.

    The appeal to consequence may indicate the need for prudence in its application, but it says nothing about the intrinsic correctness of the logic. To suppose otherwise is itself illogical.
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  4. #24
    Senior Member Chunes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Never.
    Always, actually, unless you're using it within its intended scope.

    By the way, I've never seen anybody confine logic to its proper scope on TypoC before. Nor have I seen an example of logic used to prove anything outside a closed axiomatic system.
    "If you would convince a man that he does wrong, do right. But do not care to convince him. Men will believe what they see. Let them see."
    Thoreau

  5. #25
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    ^ How would you define its "proper scope" then?
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  6. #26
    Senior Member Chunes's Avatar
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    See: last three words of my post
    "If you would convince a man that he does wrong, do right. But do not care to convince him. Men will believe what they see. Let them see."
    Thoreau

  7. #27
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    ^ I can see them, but what am I supposed to infer? That proving things within, or without, a closed axiomatic system is to you the proper scope of logic? Starting the sentence with "Nor" suggests it's something else, which you haven't defined.
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  8. #28
    Senior Member Chunes's Avatar
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    Logic requires assumptions and careful boundaries to work properly.

    If someone uses logic to arrive at a conclusion about say, Israel's motives behind its latest military bravado, then I can only assume his premise takes into account every factor in the universe, since every factor in the universe would be required to make an accurate observation.

    Logical streams of cause and effect assume that only one thing causes the next thing to happen. Existence isn't like that.
    "If you would convince a man that he does wrong, do right. But do not care to convince him. Men will believe what they see. Let them see."
    Thoreau

  9. #29
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chunes View Post
    Logic requires assumptions and careful boundaries to work properly.

    If someone uses logic to arrive at a conclusion about say, Israel's motives behind its latest military bravado, then I can only assume his premise takes into account every factor in the universe, since every factor in the universe would be required to make an accurate observation.

    Logical streams of cause and effect assume that only one thing causes the next thing to happen. Existence isn't like that.
    I believe there's something called Ockham's razor that can be productively applied to such situations...
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  10. #30
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    I don't think "logic" is being defined correctly.

    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    When it is based on false assumptions. In that case there can be fragments of logic within a larger illogical framework.
    Logic based on false assumptions is still logical. Logic is just a tool.

    Now, can logic result in irrational conclusions? Yes, indeed...

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