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  1. #91
    Member Juni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Actually, I know some gay men who call each other bitches.
    And I know men that are way more whorish than women. Gotta love the double standards on that one.

  2. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    What is this about? I find it creepy. I know it's supposed to be playful/affectionate, but it just seems wrong (even if it's very over the top "biiaaaaaaatttttch!!!")

    Somewhat broader issue possibly, but I have some female friends on Facebook (all of whom I know at least a little in real life!) - a little younger than me (and I'm not that old, I'm 30) - probably 20-27. Their Facebook personas seem to be a lot about posting pics of themselves in slutty outfits and calling each other things like "bitch" and "skanky ho".

    Is this a generational thing? Does it have to do with the pornification of mainstream society??

    Comments?

    EDIT: by the way, most of my friends are not like this...I would put the ones who are in the "acquaintance" slot...
    Its degrading to label someone a dog and looks like an ownership claim.

  3. #93
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    For example, you think the words "sinister pornification" are terribly serious, and I find those words hysterically funny...and strangely melodic.

    Edit: I think I'll employ them as my new subtitle.
    Well, to be honest, while I do think "pornification" as a trend is serious, and not good, "sinister pornification" was somewhat tongue in cheek. I guess that didn't come across.

    I still particularly like the fact that my dislike of "bitch" as a term of endearment is chalked up to my ignorance of language and its subleties. I actually tend to think that language has far more power, of an almost talismanic sort, than people give it credit for. So when you use words that have been used to degrade and oppress for decades, all that history is still in your use of the word. Of course, language evolves and the explicit meaning of words can change considerably, but you can't escape the history. And I don't think "bitch" has exactly "entirely changed meaning."

    I apparently have now been branded the TypeC buttock-clencher, but hey, a few people in my life have seen me that way. Not usually the ones who know me well, though.

    As for my linking of the topic of this thread, and “pornification”:

    Expressions like “bitch” and “skanky ho” have normally been perceived as insulting and even as ways of oppressing women or keeping them in their place. I acknowledge (though don’t agree with) the “reclaiming” argument. However, pornography is in large part about men dominating or hurting women, treating them as goods or as animals, or as slaves…etc.

    When I see/hear girls calling each other things like these, even with the most affectionate intent, AND (in some cases at least, some of which I mentioned at the outset) also dressing and acting in such a way as to advertise their sexual availability and passivity, it does seems like the issues might be related.

    Why choose to call your best girlfriends words that have traditionally been insulting AND also degrade women on the basis of their gender and/or sexual behaviour or availability? To me it just seems to reinforce that, in fact, sex is the only commodity women have to offer, and that emulating porn stars is the way to go to get ahead if you’re a girl.

    Just my opinion, to which I am entitled, as you are all of course entitled to yours.
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  4. #94
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    So when you use words that have been used to degrade and oppress for decades, all that history is still in your use of the word. Of course, language evolves and the explicit meaning of words can change considerably, but you can't escape the history. And I don't think "bitch" has exactly "entirely changed meaning."

    Why choose to call your best girlfriends words that have traditionally been insulting AND also degrade women on the basis of their gender and/or sexual behaviour or availability? To me it just seems to reinforce that, in fact, sex is the only commodity women have to offer, and that emulating porn stars is the way to go to get ahead if you’re a girl.
    It's funny, you rail against "oppression" but espouse Victorian attitudes. You clearly have associations with the word that others simply do not have. Perhaps you should watch less porn?
    A word does not have only one history, it has many. Most people aren't so etymologically fastidious. They use words which have currency. You find yourself in a foreign culture and seek to impose an alien sensibility onto it.
    Women are still oppressed in serious ways; do you really think being censorious is the way to overcome that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #95
    Member Juni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    As for my linking of the topic of this thread, and “pornification”:

    Expressions like “bitch” and “skanky ho” have normally been perceived as insulting and even as ways of oppressing women or keeping them in their place. I acknowledge (though don’t agree with) the “reclaiming” argument. However, pornography is in large part about men dominating or hurting women, treating them as goods or as animals, or as slaves…etc.
    When I am tied up and gagged, being called bitch and dominated is damn sexy!

    To me it just seems to reinforce that, in fact, sex is the only commodity women have to offer, and that emulating porn stars is the way to go to get ahead if you’re a girl.
    You forgot that we offer sandwiches!

    And that is like saying sperm, money, and zombie protection is all men have to offer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    It's funny, you rail against "oppression" but espouse Victorian attitudes. You clearly have associations with the word that others simply do not have. Perhaps you should watch less porn?
    A word does not have only one history, it has many. Most people aren't so etymologically fastidious. They use words which have currency. You find yourself in a foreign culture and seek to impose an alien sensibility onto it.
    Women are still oppressed in serious ways; do you really think being censorious is the way to overcome that?
    ILY! Watch less porn. Lulz.

  6. #96
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    It's funny, you rail against "oppression" but espouse Victorian attitudes. You clearly have associations with the word that others simply do not have. Perhaps you should watch less porn?
    A word does not have only one history, it has many. Most people aren't so etymologically fastidious. They use words which have currency. You find yourself in a foreign culture and seek to impose an alien sensibility onto it.
    Women are still oppressed in serious ways; do you really think being censorious is the way to overcome that?

    Sigh.

    I've never actually watched porn (true story). I am vaguely aware of its general themes, however. And I think this thread and its varied responses bears out that I am not the lone voice in the wilderness crying out that calling your friends "bitch" is not a choice that everyone wants to make and that some have legitimate reasons for finding it disturbing. maybe you and most of your friends call each other "bitch", but I don't think most of mine do, or would be impressed if I tried it in an affectionate context.

    I'm not primarily talking about the use of this word in the UK. I have friends from all over the world and as you pointed out to me yourself, this seems to be quite common usage in countries including my home country (so apparently I'm a Canadian trying to "impose" an "alien sensibility" on the UK...LOL). However, if you have a mental image of me walking around London wearing a t-shirt saying "don't call your friends 'bitch'", nothing i say will change that.

    I guess this thread has outlived its usefulness. Apparently expressing my opinion and disagreeing with some others' opinions was the wrong thing to do. I did try to make it clear that this is my opinion, that not everyone will agree with me, and that we are all entitled to our opinions. But obviously that makes me a good target for some finger-wagging.

    Hugs and kisses from the porn-watching, buttock-clenching, censorious, etymologically ignorant, Victorian OP. I guess we should all start calling each other cunts now!
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  7. #97
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    Attack the argument, by all means, but the whole sighing and woe-is-meing is lame.

    You started a thread accusing women of sluttish behaviour (some of whom are your Facebook "friends") with the statement "it just seems wrong".
    Kinda bitchy, if you ask me. Not to mention self-righteous.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    And I think this thread and its varied responses bears out that I am not the lone voice in the wilderness crying out that calling your friends "bitch" is not a choice that everyone wants to make and that some have legitimate reasons for finding it disturbing. maybe you and most of your friends call each other "bitch", but I don't think most of mine do, or would be impressed if I tried it in an affectionate context.
    Who asked you to? And if you'd read my posts you'd find that I don't engage in the sort of behaviour you are talking about. That doesn't mean I feel the need to condemn those who do as being somehow morally corrupt. Really, I have more important things to worry about. So, I would hope, do you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #98
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Really, I have more important things to worry about. So, I would hope, do you.
    Gosh...you seem to have spent quite a lot of time and vehemence on this thread when you have so many other better things to worry about!

    And evidently I should take "bitchy" as a compliment!
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  9. #99
    One day and the next Rainne's Avatar
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    Yeah I've noticed this a lot.

    I find it kinda hot.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Gosh...you seem to have spent quite a lot of time and vehemence on this thread when you have so many other better things to worry about!
    I'm multi-tasking.
    You think that was vehemence? LOL. NFs!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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