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  1. #31
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    he took innocent lives to save his own, he must suffer the consequences.

    in fact, he shouldn't even appeal on the grounds that he was 'force to'...he should just accept the consequence of his actions.

    if it was in direct self-defence, where he kills someone wielding a knife at him, then itd be different since he killed the offender. but here he killed the innocent in order to protect himself.

  2. #32
    is an ambi-turner BRMC117's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    Being weak willed doesn't keep you from punishment.
    I still agree with this ^^
    "I put the fires out."
    "you made them worse."
    "worse...or better?"

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    I just read these news:



    BBC News - Former Nazi SS member convicted of Dutch murders

    I don't know what to make of this. If it is true that he would have been shot if he disobeyed, then who can claim to be any better than this guy?
    Quote Originally Posted by the article
    He told the state court that he and fellow members of the SS Silbertanne (Silver Pine) death squad had been informed by their superiors that the men were to be killed in retaliation for attacks by the resistance.
    I wonder what people actually expected when they joined or were in divisions of the SS.

    If this decision is not along the lines of precedence set by the post WWII trials, I would disagree with the decision. I would also be inclined to think that a life sentence isn't warranted, as I doubt most murderers would get life sentences... and I also have a funny feeling about how people would feel about American soldiers in situations similar to the ones in the quotes.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanamori View Post
    and I also have a funny feeling about how people would feel about American soldiers in situations similar to the ones in the quotes.
    Well, let's see. Here's an example:

    Many of the victims were sexually abused, beaten, tortured, and some of the bodies were found mutilated.[2] The massacre took place in the hamlets of M? Lai and My Khe of S?n M? village during the Vietnam War.[3][4] While 26 U.S. soldiers were initially charged with criminal offenses for their actions at My Lai, only William Calley was convicted. He served only three years of an original life sentence, while on house arrest.
    My Lai Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  5. #35
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    I think that considering the context, he shouldn't have been sent to prison at all. Especially if he were blackmailed into doing it.

    Did he show remorse? If so... that's just not fair that he has to die in prison.

    It's just a strange situation. What he did was wrong... yet hm.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    It's just a strange situation. What he did was wrong... yet hm.
    I find this guy interesting (from the same wiki article):

    Calley and Meadlo were firing at the people. They were firing into the hole. I saw Meadlo firing into the hole.

    Q: Well, tell me, what was so remarkable about Meadlo that made you remember him?
    A: He was firing and crying.
    Q: He was pointing his weapon away from you and then you saw tears in his eyes?
    A: Yes.
    —Private First Class Robert Maples, [42]
    He clearly saw that what he was doing is wrong and if he had refused to shoot he would not have been killed. I think that he has enough "punishment" in knowing that he killed innocent people. But according to the previous posts, I suppose the consensus here is he should be sentenced to life?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    I find this guy interesting (from the same wiki article):

    He clearly saw that what he was doing is wrong and if he had refused to shoot he would not have been killed. I think that he has enough "punishment" in knowing that he killed innocent people. But according to the previous posts, I suppose the consensus here is he should be sentenced to life?
    Yeah... I was thinking that they would be remorseful.

    I personally would have aimed away from the people on purpose.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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  8. #38
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    The SS was the highest-ranked military organisation and every big cruelty from WWII is connected to them.

    You had the regular military and its comanding officers. They received their orders from the NSDAP, which was the party of Adolf Hitler and given it was a totalitarian system, this means they received their orders from the dictator.

    The SA was the military police. They were used to control annexed territory and to control the military itself.

    The SS tho were some kind of special forces made of the people Hitler trusted the most and they were in that regards the executive power of the very inhumane things the NSDAP wanted. SS Deathsquad or Totenkopf-SS was the elite squad consisting of members hand-picked by Hitler.

    So you didnt just happen to be a member of the SS, you had to work your way into it thru conviction and loyality to the system.

    The biggest crimes the SS did was they organized and executed the will of Hitler in the Konzentrationslager. The majority of the people serving in the military didnt know what the SS was doing and for example my grandpa got to know about the war crimes to the jew population the first time he was released from russian imprisonment in 1950.

    You know they all say today they didnt know about the things the SS did but they all saw the Jews vanish from their neighbourhoods and they all knew the SS does cruel things, so its very hard to tell who is to blame.

    One thing's for sure tho, being part of the SS and doubly-so being part of SS-deathsquad meant that one oneself did a lot of cruel things that werent under direct order. Like a SS officer was given the order to kill all Jews in an annexed town but how he did it, he had to decide + there were no supervisors to SS officers, meaning they theorethically had the chance to help people to get away and some of them even did do that.

    Wernher von Braun btw. was a member of the SS aswell. He did it, to be able to work on his scientific research. Nevertheless he organized a work force consisting of people of jewish origin to build his V2 rockets...

    It's all dissolved in a lot of shades of grey
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #39
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    Since there is no and cannot be any absolute moral, we have to rely on positive law to determine what is wrong and what is right. For this SS soldier it was not only right but even his duty to kill 'innocent' people, therefore he should not have suffered any punishment.

  10. #40
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    He did what he had to do to preserve his life.

    It doesn't mean there aren't other consequences to that.. but he wanted to live, and did what he had to do for it.
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