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  1. #81
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    haha, I'm married and have three kids so by "we" I mean all of us.
    Oh, crap

    I gotta be careful what I say around these parts... :rolli:

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMWarner View Post
    I think these are separate issues, one international and one national. JivinJeffJones' assertion, which I find to be at best a caricature and at worst a slur, has to do with xenophobia and misplaced patriotism. Zergling's discussion of how the word "elite" has become a bad thing in politics is more about infighting among Americans regarding the effect of education on personal values. "Liberal elite" is a sarcastic term used to illustrate how the liberal and generally better educated citizens on the coasts dismiss and repudiate the personal values of Middle America, which makes up a majority of the population. It's a case of the minority deciding that they know what is best for the majority. Thus the use of "elite".
    Actually, there does seem to be a connection between the attitudes, because of they way they evolve over time. The "elite" bit did seem to come from a difference in values, economic interests, etc., and has been a viewpoint that has existed for a long time. What seems to have occurred, though, is that the fear/competition in political terms with an "elite" gets associated with any sort of education and extra knowledge, which than results in a lot of people thinking of education and knowledge of the rest of the world as a bad thing, because that is what the "other" does. (This is despite the fact that the sort of knowledge talked about is not hidden, widely accessible, and not that difficult to figure out if wanted, so is not just isolated to one single group of people.)

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    WTF? I said "some". Jeez.
    The tone of the thread was making me angry and I let my emotions get the best of me. I still don't think that your assertion is true, but I apologize for using the word "slur".

    Quote Originally Posted by Zergling View Post
    Actually, there does seem to be a connection between the attitudes, because of they way they evolve over time. The "elite" bit did seem to come from a difference in values, economic interests, etc., and has been a viewpoint that has existed for a long time. What seems to have occurred, though, is that the fear/competition in political terms with an "elite" gets associated with any sort of education and extra knowledge, which than results in a lot of people thinking of education and knowledge of the rest of the world as a bad thing, because that is what the "other" does. (This is despite the fact that the sort of knowledge talked about is not hidden, widely accessible, and not that difficult to figure out if wanted, so is not just isolated to one single group of people.)
    I find that your description of how education can be seen as something the "other" does rings true in my gut. It's reminiscent of how a portion of the black underclass in America demonizes educated blacks as Uncle Toms. I still have trouble seeing how that translates into a twisted idea of patriotism though, because that type of person is as likely to feel this way about his fellow citizens as he is about people from other countries. This is not to say that Americans aren't provincial, because I think they are. I think that's partially a byproduct of living in such a geographically vast country, and partially because we tend to export a lot of popular culture and media, and do not import very much.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMWarner View Post
    I find that your description of how education can be seen as something the "other" does rings true in my gut. It's reminiscent of how a portion of the black underclass in America demonizes educated blacks as Uncle Toms. I still have trouble seeing how that translates into a twisted idea of patriotism though, because that type of person is as likely to feel this way about his fellow citizens as he is about people from other countries. This is not to say that Americans aren't provincial, because I think they are. I think that's partially a byproduct of living in such a geographically vast country, and partially because we tend to export a lot of popular culture and media, and do not import very much.
    If you combine distrust for an "other" with patriotism, it becomes a pretty easy combination to think of any types of "other" as anti-whatever country the patriotism is for.

  5. #85
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    I wish I were as smart as Kelli Pickler. She knows how to relax in front of a camera. She knows how to laugh at herself. She's willing to be the butt of jokes. She knows how to make others laugh. She knows that people like to feel smart, and she's willing to look dumb in order to let others feel good about themselves. She knows when to be cheeky and when to be meek. Golly, if I could figure out how to do that in my classroom...!

  6. #86
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by faith View Post
    I wish I were as smart as Kelli Pickler. She knows how to relax in front of a camera. She knows how to laugh at herself. She's willing to be the butt of jokes. She knows how to make others laugh. She knows that people like to feel smart, and she's willing to look dumb in order to let others feel good about themselves. She knows when to be cheeky and when to be meek. Golly, if I could figure out how to do that in my classroom...!
    She definitely has some good qualities.

  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by JAVO View Post
    I find it interesting that YourLocalJesus is in Sweden and Jen is talking about relatively worse conditions in Britain and Germany compared to the US. This seems to validate these rankings (from 2005).
    I know this is a late reply (haven't had internet at home for a few days) but I just want to say I generally disagree with Mr Jeebus, and I'm in Norway, which is #3 on your list, was #1 in '05 and '06, and #2 currently (HDI 2007). I think we're fundamentally very similar to the UK and a comparison can still be very valid, regardless where they are ranked on various "quality-of-life" indexes

  8. #88
    F CK all I need is U ilikeitlikethat's Avatar
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    That's a country!? I've heard of Turkey...

    hehe, classic.


  9. #89
    Senior Member Owlesque's Avatar
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  10. #90
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    I remember her, I think. Of course her ignorance is an act because it's supposed to make her moe in a particularly American way, but it really just makes me sad that this trope apparently pleases us to reflect enough that someone would try to be that way. It's worthy of several eyerolls, maybe, but certainly not calls to weird disciplinarian-centric schooling across the country. This thread is old, though, so maybe some of its participants have become less repugnantly stupid?

    There's a middle level of stupidity and ignorance that I feel is more dangerous than outright ignorance and dull-wittedness. The "just clever enough to rationalize, but not smart enough to be rational" people are the most dangerous, ignorant or educated.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

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