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  1. #21
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    Except that it emphasizes the individual in competition against all others rather than the solidlidarity of the collective, and is therefore the highest form of misanthropy and subsequently nefarious.
    No. It emphasizes the individual in competition against his environment, which according to Marx, was the highest aim of human existence. The implementation of social class was a perversion of this competition, by dehumanizing the collective into merely another element of his environment.

    I don't have such a shattered ego that I would need to turn to such a thing.
    Sure about that? Why spend your time, then, seeking to diminish another person?

  2. #22
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    No. It emphasizes the individual in competition against his environment, which according to Marx, was the highest aim of human existence. The implementation of social class was a perversion of this competition, by dehumanizing the collective into merely another element of his environment.
    You'd make a good lawyer, because you are basically arguing that black is white. I say "a good lawyer" as a complement, because you're doing it reasonably skilfully, in a way that would probably seem convincing to some casual and uninformed observer,

    But white is still white nad black is still black.

    Marx talked about humanity as a collective stamping its dominance over nature, yes. He certainly didn't talk about "the individual vs the world" as the OP does. The Communist Manifesto is also a concrete set of propositions, rooted in the objective circumstance, for the communists taking power, and explains how they would solve peoples problems in doing so. The OP contains no practical advice at all.

    Sure about that? Why spend your time, then, seeking to diminish another person?
    I'm not, I am just pointing out the consequences of us all actually employing the "self-help" logic, in general.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  3. #23
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    ^ :rolli: dood... what's wrong with a little optimism?
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  4. #24
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I'm gonna print this out and keep it.

  5. #25
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    ^ :rolli: dood... what's wrong with a little optimism?
    Well look at the end of the day you can be optimistic without my blessing, just as I can be optimistic without "self-help".

    I guess I just find it a shame that people can only draw "optimism" from what are essentially platitudes. And I guess I think that such an "optimism" - based on extreme egotism in the final analysis - will evaporate at the first hurdle. Unlike a genuine optimism, based on a genuinely optimistic view of other people.

    However, for such a genuine, profound optimism, you have to first confront the weaknesses of all "quick fix", nice sounding "solutions".
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  6. #26
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    Well look at the end of the day you can be optimistic without my blessing, just as I can be optimistic without "self-help".

    I guess I just find it a shame that people can only draw "optimism" from what are essentially platitudes. And I guess I think that such an "optimism" - based on extreme egotism in the final analysis - will evaporate at the first hurdle. Unlike a genuine optimism, based on a genuinely optimistic view of other people.

    However, for such a genuine, profound optimism, you have to first confront the weaknesses of all "quick fix", nice sounding "solutions".
    You make gross generalizations about people who you know very little about.
    Happiness and optimism are hardly platitudes.
    Sour grapes?

    You have your solutions for life, and I have mine.
    Needless hostility is a sign that the aggressor has feelings of inferiority.

    Why confront your own issues when it's so much easier to lash out of others as a means of redirecting your negative energy, right?

    Hopefully you are at peace with yourself soon.

    I wish you the best in all you do.
    Have a great day!

    -Halla
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

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  7. #27
    Playnerd Timeless's Avatar
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  8. #28
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    Well look at the end of the day you can be optimistic without my blessing, just as I can be optimistic without "self-help".

    I guess I just find it a shame that people can only draw "optimism" from what are essentially platitudes. And I guess I think that such an "optimism" - based on extreme egotism in the final analysis - will evaporate at the first hurdle. Unlike a genuine optimism, based on a genuinely optimistic view of other people.

    However, for such a genuine, profound optimism, you have to first confront the weaknesses of all "quick fix", nice sounding "solutions".
    lol... I've always been an incurable optimist, mister "someone pissed in my cereal"
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And if it turns out you are a loser, remember we love losers in Oz.
    You love winners in Oz.

  10. #30
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And if it turns out you are a loser, remember we love losers in Oz.
    The HBO show? I bet you anal-enthusiasts love your sore-losers, too.

    Halla, once again the awesomeness that ascends from the ashes of our mistakes is not lost on you, but found.
    I N V I C T U S

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