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  1. #21
    Reptilian Snuggletron's Avatar
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    watch Tool's 'Parabola' video.

  2. #22
    full of love Kingfisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I don't think you can grieve if you aren't aware of the loss, so it helps to prepare... but part of the preparation is embracing the hurt early.
    i don't like the idea of preparing for someone's death, even when someone has a terminal condition. i feel like it is very detrimental. i am not saying denial is the thing to do, that is a lot worse. but preparing for death feels to me like a sort of denial of life.

    it seems to be a great help and comfort for some people. but it is hard for me to understand 'preparing for death'.

  3. #23
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfisher View Post
    i don't like the idea of preparing for someone's death, even when someone has a terminal condition. i feel like it is very detrimental. i am not saying denial is the thing to do, that is a lot worse. but preparing for death feels to me like a sort of denial of life.

    it seems to be a great help and comfort for some people. but it is hard for me to understand 'preparing for death'.
    Now that you have brought it up in this context, I'm not sure what "preparing for death" means per se or if we view it the same way.

    And maybe it's not helpful to everyone.
    For some, it might bring perspective and free them to engage.
    For others, it might insert distance and lead them to disengage.

    I think one situation to avoid, though, is denial of the upcoming end.

    Not only can goodbyes not be said and the loved one not released, but the final separation will hit the survivor like a train and things will be even harder.

    Death is such an odd thing, because often the dying in terminal cases has embraced their own death, coming to terms with it, long before the inevitable survivors will.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #24
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    Two of my favorite sites on death:

    A Study of Near Death Experiences

    Find A Death

    "I'm not afraid of death because I don't believe in it.
    It's just getting out of one car, and into another."
    --John Lennon--

  5. #25
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur
    You missed some of my post in your quote
    Ah. I see. I didn't think it made sense.
    You want to avoid being a basket case? Why? It's a legitimate reaction.

    I think what you are looking for is impossible. A blueprint for the correct way to grieve? It's as personal as your fingerprint.


    Pre-modern civilizations seem to be better at guiding man through the grieving process with rituals and ceremonies. Modeling the process of letting go. Are they comforting? I dont know. I imagine they provide structure and certainty at a time when its most needed. Religion serves the same purpose. Those of us without faith just have to stare into the abyss and have it stare right back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    I've never had someone close to me die so I am unsure about the best way to deal with death. I am looking for ideas or thoughts on how to take death.

    I think the closest I've ever been was when my 4 month old had very serious surgery and I was a basket case. I could even start to cry if I saw the name of the surgeon for months afterwards.

    I would like to avoid that type of thing but I'm not sure if there is a way to do it. Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome.

    Maybe the best way you got to a stable point after a very close-to-you-death?

    How do you deal with stupid things people say?

    How do you avoid crying like crazy at the funeral? Is this even a goal?
    Avoiding such things should NOT be the goal. Learning how to cope and facing your fears should. You are an enneagram 7 right? Don't shy away from pain, yo.

  7. #27
    full of love Kingfisher's Avatar
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    one of the things that has helped me deal with death is to become as involved as possible in the burial or handling of the body, to prepare the person's body for burial.
    but i think that would be more upsetting for some people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think one situation to avoid, though, is denial of the upcoming end.

    Not only can goodbyes not be said and the loved one not released, but the final separation will hit the survivor like a train and things will be even harder.
    then sometimes it just happens suddenly, and there wasn't any way to prepare for it anyway.

    maybe preparing for death means learning to accept death, to be content with it.

  8. #28
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I've dealt with the deaths of three grandparents and an aunt to cancer. I think each one impacted me differently, depending on my age at the time. I think every death should change us in some way and make us think. Nothing ever will be the same again. It's a matter of creating a new normal and having what you have experienced influence how you live the years of your own life.

    Things changed for me fundamentally when my maternal grandparents died. However, their legacy has lived on in the stories they told, in my grandfather's fiddle, in the sense of who I am and what I stand for, in the ways they affected me. All of those things will never die and are being passed on. It's made me think about how I want to impact the world both while I'm here and after I'm gone.

    When my paternal grandparents died, nothing really changed. That to me is a tragedy, but did attest to the fact that they chose to be uninvolved. They never invested in anyone. Ironically, they were much less taken for granted than the people in my life who sacrificed all kinds of things for those they loved. I realized that although people may not realize how dear someone is to them at the time, the only way to "immortalize" yourself is through the memories you give other people of you, whether good or bad.

    When my aunt died at 50, she had had two rounds of cancer. She had single-handedly raised my uncle's children during the ten lost years of his alcoholism. While she was quiet and very few people got close to her heart, she was the rock that anchored my uncle. Despite a lengthy battle with cancer, it was strange to realize that she never wrote a will, had any good-bye talks, or faced the fact that she was going to die. That too taught me about the need to face death head on sometimes, even as we cling to life.

    I think each experience we have with death guides us, and helps us to better empathize with others. It's not until pain has wrung our own hearts in some way that it impacts our daily lives and slices deeply than we can possibly see or understand a little of what others are going through. It makes us much more sensitive and if we allow it, I believe death teaches us lessons that we need to know about living our lives to the hilt.

    Even people saying stupid things helps us to better understand what to say or do. I remember a man saying at my grandfather's funeral, "Nice turn-out". My 11 year old self was furious that he just saw it as a pleasant social engagement, rather than the end of someone who mattered immeasurably. I remember my mum reframing his words and saying that even though it was expressed strangely, what he really was saying was that my grandfather had been a well-respected and well-loved man.

    My mum lost a baby to toxemia at 7 months as well as having 2 miscarriages. At one point, it appeared that she would never be able to have more children, which to her was a grave loss. She said it wasn't until then that she realized how incredibly many people had gone through the same pain, nor how kind some people were. Even the insensitive things some people said changed her own reactions and sense of engagement with people going through personal sadness and pain.

  9. #29
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Avoiding such things should NOT be the goal. Learning how to cope and facing your fears should. You are an enneagram 7 right? Don't shy away from pain, yo.
    I interpreted the "such things" Elaur was talking about to be the "becoming a basket case for a few months" part, not the actual hardships she endured. I'd like to avoid becoming a basket case as well, but I'm not looking to shy away from pain.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  10. #30
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Ah. I see. I didn't think it made sense.
    You want to avoid being a basket case? Why? It's a legitimate reaction.

    I think what you are looking for is impossible. A blueprint for the correct way to grieve? It's as personal as your fingerprint.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Avoiding such things should NOT be the goal. Learning how to cope and facing your fears should. You are an enneagram 7 right? Don't shy away from pain, yo.
    I don't want to avoid or have a formula to cope, I want to learn to grow through a difficult experience. I want to accept and honor memories, rather than allowing the experience to be an end all. I want to help teach my kids to deal with death in a good way. I don't see death as an awful thing. I am not the only person to have to deal with death, why not ask for input from other people.

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