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  1. #31
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by disregard View Post
    Why did this topic have to degenerate into semantics?

    Alright, since you insist:

    Pray tell what the difference is between an argument and a friendly conversation (both of your terms), and I will have a clearer of understanding the distinction and its relevance to our exchange.



    An argument to me is nasty, an angry challenging of views, no manners, blunt, rude, that is taken personally.

    A friendly conversation is me expressing my opinion, you expressing yours, any disagreement kept in a civil manner, bounce the idea back and forth, see if goes anywhere, see if I learn anything, which doesn't happen if I am arguing with someone.

    I don't want someone stuffing their views down my throat in a brutal, I am so much more superior than you manner, I'd rather they pointed out politely where my views are wrong. To me that's arguing.

    I don't like arguing.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

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  2. #32
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    However, our social graces compel us to believe that if somebody expresses an opinion, there is something to that. In many cases, it is considered rude to completely discredit someone's views right off the bat or to ignore them completely. So, when somebody voices their views about any subject-matter and we do not question them, we'd be led to think that there is some merit to what they say. This applies even to matters such as taste or something else that is radically subjective. After all, when somebody says that they like apples, we are often led to wonder if we should like apples also, or whether are apples good altogether. Our liberty to question the wisdom of that statement is constrained severly by the preface of 'its just my opinion'.

    But then again, you can respond, so what, they are talking about their fancies? True, but our respect for our fellow human beings leads us to believe that maybe we should share their values for some reason. We could only avoid thinking that we should if we question their views, yet again, it becomes hard to question somebody's views when they use the 'its just my opinion tactic'. In short, the fact that they may be sharing something that is a matter of taste or whim does not make their remark any more or less insidious as they are still subtly forcing their views on us. In this case the views are about what values we should have as opposed to what beliefs we ought to endorse with respect to how the world works. Their reference to something private and subjective actually smuggles in a reference to how the world works. We know that there is such a thing as human nature and if one person has a certain taste, we'd be apt to suspect that we might have that taste as well. So if somebody says they like X, we'd be apt to guess that we might like it too or that we even should like it, as by default we assume that the other person's remark has some merit at least.
    That is an interesting perspective on it, and it makes a great deal of sense. It is a factor that comes into play here, but there is also an opposite dynamic that interacts with the one you described. There are also instances where people use "opinion" to delineate a sense of self. If a sibling prefers blue, then that is a reason to prefer red. Awareness and acceptance of these distinctions is one way people gain a sense of having a distinct role. The sense of resolution is not in creating a universal preference, but to show separation of individuals defined by contrasting preference.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
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    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
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  3. #33
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    I personally use that line when I can't back up my opinion with a sound logical argument & evidence - basically, when I'm merely uttering a "hunch" I have about a given subject-piece of information. I'm not tryin to shield my opinion from external judgement - just warning that if you try to start a serious analytical debate, I will likely not be able to partecipate.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  4. #34
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BerberElla View Post
    An argument to me is nasty, an angry challenging of views, no manners, blunt, rude, that is taken personally.

    A friendly conversation is me expressing my opinion, you expressing yours, any disagreement kept in a civil manner, bounce the idea back and forth, see if goes anywhere, see if I learn anything, which doesn't happen if I am arguing with someone.

    I don't want someone stuffing their views down my throat in a brutal, I am so much more superior than you manner, I'd rather they pointed out politely where my views are wrong. To me that's arguing.

    I don't like arguing.

    What about when there is no nastiness to the exchange whatsoever, yet the JMO is employed?

    Isn't it, as the OP has asserted, a way of making their arguments incontestable?

    Therefore, when they are the ones contesting the POV of another.. isn't it a bit odd to say?

  5. #35
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    With my understanding of what opinion means, saying "it's just my opinion" is an instant debate killer. It should mean there is nothing to be objectively, factually debated, so you either don't debate, or it means you want to continue the debate on totally subjective grounds, which is as good as killing the debate anyway.

    Oh no! Now we're going to get into that mire of distinguishing the words argument, debate, discussion, and conversation!
    Or we might just have a nice friendly speculative discussion. Then, from its speculative conclusions, each partecipant might have gained another perspective on the problem, and proceed at quantifying the "hard facts". I mean, there world isn't just a giant debate arena.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  6. #36
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by disregard View Post
    What about when there is no nastiness to the exchange whatsoever, yet the JMO is employed?
    Well for me, it's because I see everyone as a hop, skip and step away from turning nasty, because in truth that's all I see. I employed it early to try to avoid it, and unfortunately it's backfired and landed me right where I didn't want to be.

    Isn't it, as the OP has asserted, a way of making their arguments incontestable?

    Therefore, when they are the ones contesting the POV of another.. isn't it a bit odd to say?

    No, not at all. It's contestable, infact stating it's my opinion is saying "this is contestable" because it is just a subjective, personal, opinion.

    If I read "It's just my opinion" I see openess, the reaction to JMO is different for everyone, a lesson I just learned today.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

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  7. #37
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BerberElla View Post
    An argument to me is nasty, an angry challenging of views, no manners, blunt, rude, that is taken personally.
    that's just your opinion.

    A friendly conversation is me expressing my opinion, you expressing yours, any disagreement kept in a civil manner, bounce the idea back and forth, see if goes anywhere, see if I learn anything, which doesn't happen if I am arguing with someone.

    I don't want someone stuffing their views down my throat in a brutal, I am so much more superior than you manner, I'd rather they pointed out politely where my views are wrong. To me that's arguing.

    I don't like arguing.
    well that's 'cause your idea of arguing is, in real life, actually called fighting.
    we fukin won boys

  8. #38
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Really good thread, SW.

    Aphrodite has my answer, when I say something is just my opinion I'm acknowledging that it's just my perspective on an issue and you are welcome to yours as well. This applies to both educated and uneducated opinions, although I'm more willing to debate my educated opinion when I feel like I can logically support it with well-corroborated evidence. If I'm talking from the center of my ass, I won't put up much of an argument or defense for my opinion.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  9. #39
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    That is an interesting perspective on it, and it makes a great deal of sense. It is a factor that comes into play here, but there is also an opposite dynamic that interacts with the one you described. There are also instances where people use "opinion" to delineate a sense of self. If a sibling prefers blue, then that is a reason to prefer red. Awareness and acceptance of these distinctions is one way people gain a sense of having a distinct role. The sense of resolution is not in creating a universal preference, but to show separation of individuals defined by contrasting preference.
    I understand that an opinion forges a sense of self. However, the problem is not with the word opinion but with the word just in the context of 'just my opinion'. Just or 'only' in this contexts means that you're view is a mere humble utterance whic shouldn't be questioned.

    In short, nothing wrong with having an opinion as long as you don't imply it ought not to be questioned.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Or we might just have a nice friendly speculative discussion. Then, from its speculative conclusions, each partecipant might have gained another perspective on the problem, and proceed at quantifying the "hard facts". .
    As poriferan implied, we won't even be able to get off the ground as 'just my opinion' insinuates your view shouldn't be questioned.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Really good thread, SW.

    Aphrodite has my answer, when I say something is just my opinion I'm acknowledging that it's just my perspective on an issue and you are welcome to yours as well. This applies to both educated and uneducated opinions, although I'm more willing to debate my educated opinion when I feel like I can logically support it with well-corroborated evidence. If I'm talking from the center of my ass, I won't put up much of an argument or defense for my opinion.
    It welcomes both educated and uneducated views only in the event they happen to agree with yours as the phrases connotes that disagreements aren't acceptable.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  10. #40
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    I
    As poriferan implied, we won't even be able to get off the ground as 'just my opinion' insinuates your view shouldn't be questioned.
    So, how would one prevent himself from being attacked for the factual baselessness of his opinion? Perhaps adding something akin to "This is speculative" would be a more viable and less ambiguous option? Basically, what I want to convey is that my "idea" hasn't been proven and/or hasn't being analyzed in full detail before being uttered; I want to modulate the impact of my "opinion".
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

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