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  1. #11
    Playnerd Timeless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimmy View Post
    SolitaryWalker, you're over analysing, but that's just my opinion.
    Exactly.

    This is like saying, "People who say 'Hello' are using it to cover up their insecurities and trying to break the ice because they scared and their father left them as a child while he went to World War 2, and the mother had sex with the local poolboy."

    Not only are you overanalyzing, you can't know 100% foolproof the hell a person is thinking and why they did something. Unless you're psychic.

    You can take pretty good guesses, and that's no big deal, but if I go to a bar, or talk to a classmate in class and I hear someone say that, "Just my opinion" I'm I going to masturbate my Ne? I don't know about you, but I've learned to turned that on and off. Sometimes, "Just my opinion" is just "Just my opinion" nothing more, nothing less. It's when you start projecting what you think it is (just a pretty guess) not only are you dumping your assumptions onto a person, but you're having a conversation with yourself. Not the other person.

  2. #12
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timeless View Post
    Exactly.

    This is like saying, "People who say 'Hello' are using it to cover up their insecurities and trying to break the ice because they scared and their father left them as a child while he went to World War 2, and the mother had sex with the local poolboy."

    .
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  3. #13
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timeless View Post
    This is like saying, "People who say 'Hello' are using it to cover up their insecurities and trying to break the ice because they scared and their father left them as a child while he went to World War 2, and the mother had sex with the local poolboy."
    No, it's not. Carry on though, you're really funny.

  4. #14
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    I don't use "imo" in this way at all. I use it as an Fe tool, if you will, to let others know it is indeed "in my opinion" meaning my opinion might be presumptuous and pompous and silly and overly analytical and unintelligible and illogical, but it is my opinion and I am taking the liberty of stating my opinion no matter if you agree or not.

    .
    Yes, yes I know: when you say something is your opinion you mean to claim that you aren't arrogant enough to assume that you're right. Of course such humility shows that you don't have robust confidence in your views and may back down if you're challenged, yet the problem is that you discourage others from challenging you by making your statement seem like a shy and an inhibited remark rather than a bold statement that you carry full responsibility for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    Exactly. And if I don't use such disclaimers, I'm being arrogant and judgemental.
    Such an annoying little trick.

    Not really. The Western Cultural values are tolerant of people's rights to have their own bold opinions: they are fundamental to our firm beliefs in an Open society and democracy. In the eyes of many, to have an open society means to have a community where people don't have to apologize for their views and may voice them freely.

    Yes, there will be some insecure and hypersensitive folks here and there who will be offended by your self-assured attitude and will take offense to your statement if you don't preface it as 'just my opinion', yet their approach doesn't represent that of a typical western person.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    True, if I say that my view is an opinion, I do not explicitly state that my view is correct or that it is factual. However, I do imply this. Have you heard of Moore's paradox? Its a thesis that you can't say you believe X and that X is false. So when I say it is just my opinion that X is so and so, I am saying that I believe that X is indeed so and so. Thereby I imply that I think that my view is true or factual.

    In other words, just because I do not explicitly state that my view is factual, it does not mean that I do not at all communicate a message that it is. In fact I indeed did communicate that message just by voicing my opinion in the first place.
    It makes sense, from a strictly logical and objective standpoint. However, doesn't Moore's paradox also imply that nothing is mere opinion? I wouldn't exactly translate "My favorite flavor of ice cream is chocolate" or "I believe that chocolate is the best flavor of ice cream" as "Chocolate is the best flavor of ice cream, and anyone who believes otherwise is believing a complete falsehood," for example.

    I'm refining some of my own ideas on the matter here.. but perhaps what I mean by "honesty" in a person stating the phrase "just my opinion" is that he does not (or, at least, does not intend to) communicate a message that his opinion is fact.


    I still believe that opinions can be questioned, however. In the context of this forum, for example, even if the person who delivered an 'opinion' will not defend it from scrutiny, others in the conversation can debate it if they so choose.


    I also wouldn't be too hasty to judge most everyone who uses the phrase to be hiding a delivery of what they perceive as the truth. In fact, many conversations between NFs (for example) involve each stating their viewpoint and collectively discussing these viewpoints, but not 'battling' them out and attempting to find out which one is the 'truth.' From what I've seen, NFs can be more interested in just hearing others' points of view than searching out the truth.

    Since this is part of the NF's mental filter, he might state his opinion as an opinion in an 'inappropriate' context, one where others in the discussion are more interested in debating viewpoints.


    Even as I write, I notice that I throw in a lot of caveats that could also be seen as evasive. "From what I've seen", "doesn't Moore's paradox ... ?", etc. In so doing, I'm not attempting to be logically dodgy, nor are these debate tactics of mine; I simply don't claim to know the truth and therefore do not present my viewpoints as such. I do, however, eagerly await clarification as well as others' viewpoints, which I might very well incorporate into my own worldview.

    Which leads us to:

    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Yes, yes I know: when you say something is your opinion you mean to claim that you aren't arrogant enough to assume that you're right. Of course such humility shows that you don't have robust confidence in your views and may back down if you're challenged, yet the problem is that you discourage others from challenging you by making your statement seem like a shy and an inhibited remark rather than a bold statement that you carry full responsibility for.
    I can see where this could be frustrating. I also see this as a major difference in the priorities that people have in conversations, which I've hopefully satisfactorily outlined above.

  6. #16
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Yes, yes I know: when you say something is your opinion you mean to claim that you aren't arrogant enough to assume that you're right. Of course such humility shows that you don't have robust confidence in your views and may back down if you're challenged, yet the problem is that you discourage others from challenging you by making your statement seem like a shy and an inhibited remark rather than a bold statement that you carry full responsibility for.




    hahaha! How little you know me! I know I am right! I'm INFJ! I just don't presume that you think I'm right. And confidence I don't lack.......although I'm always open to considering most other viewpoints (if I haven't already solidified to the point of petrification my F or T about something)
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  7. #17
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    hahaha! How little you know me! I know I am right! I'm INFJ! I just don't presume that you think I'm right. And confidence I don't lack.......although I'm always open to considering most other viewpoints (if I haven't already solidified to the point of petrification my F or T about something)
    Madame, with all due respect, when I say 'you', I do not mean you as an individual. You is simply a conversational variable carrying the same meaning as 'X'.

    My point was about the conventional meaning of the phrase 'its just my opinion'; that does not mean that everybody who uses this phrase does so conventionally. People do indeed employ popular phrases and words in an idiosyncratic fashion and for all I know that could be exactly what you're doing.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  8. #18
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Not really. The Western Cultural values are tolerant of people's rights to have their own bold opinions: they are fundamental to our firm beliefs in an Open society and democracy. In the eyes of many, to have an open society means to have a community where people don't have to apologize for their views and may voice them freely.

    Yes, there will be some insecure and hypersensitive folks here and there who will be offended by your self-assured attitude and will take offense to your statement if you don't preface it as 'just my opinion', yet their approach doesn't represent that of a typical western person.
    Interesting, since I'm not really familiar with the approach of a 'typical western person' IRL. I think people can be tolerant and accepting while still showing the "you're arrogant, because you didn't say it's only your opinion" trumpcard once in a while. The fundamental right of free speech does not necessarily come with advanced dialectics.

  9. #19
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    The fundamental right of free speech does not necessarily come with advanced dialectics.
    The value of 'free speech' is so fundamental to our society that voicing one's views unapologetically is considered normal. An arrogant person is one who has more confidence than he should, or somebody who shows that he thinks too much of himself by behaving with far greater confidence than an average person would when this is not at all warranted. Voicing an opinion boldly is warranted in all cases, so its difficult to imagine this act intrinsically arrogant.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

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  10. #20
    Glycerine
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    I use "IMO" to avoid sounding absolute and dogmatic. What may be in true in one person's reality may or may not be true in someone's else's reality. Also, I use "tend to", "possibly", "maybe", "seems", "most likely", "sometimes" for the same exact reason. In other words, I am trying not to shove what I believe to be true down someone else's throat. Take religion for example. "IMO, premarital sex is a sin." vs. "Premarital sex is a sin." I may believe that but other people may not. (Note: this is just an EXAMPLE not what I necessarily believe).

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