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Thread: Ni is .....

  1. #41
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Ni combined with Se does not aim to keep it real. Combined with Ti it comes out as that is jacked up, funny, retarded, but logically true.
    You've got your Se up front, though, driving the car. Mine's in the back seat screaming that we're all gonna die because Ni's at the wheel and won't watch the road.

    I mean, I'm pretty sure for me that while Ni can go anywhere it wants, by itself--if such a thing could exist--it'd be a huge undifferentiated mess, and since Se, for me, is inferior, that kind of awareness of what's out there right now exists even while I'm busy with Ni. Obviously, while I'm busy with Ni, Se does not exist as a current, conscious input stream, but I'm pretty sure it remains present as a nuance to every vision available to Ni. I suspect my consciousness will reject a dream of the world if goes too far away from remembering that there are immediate senses. (Consciousness for me is of course dominated by Ni, so it can go pretty far into forgetting there are immediate senses, but still....)

    But when I said Te keeps it "real", I meant more that whatever goes on in Ni, it has to obey at least some kind of logic of "things out there". It may make up that logic, varying it considerably from what is currently the case in the real world, but it'll still be some kind of logic of "things out there"--mechanisms, processes, things and objects and so on. And I think, if I'm not just dreaming and noodling away the afternoon, then awareness of Se is going to get a look in too. Not Se itself, but Ni being aware that "people" use Se to get by. (Ni would be aware because, I guess, Te is on hand saying so, drawing on too many years of being me to prove it, I guess.) (And naturally, when I say "people", I mean me, and when I say Se, I mean inferior Se.)

    I assume this is logical, but I don't know exactly if it is real, for the true influence of Se on my perceptions and thinking is child-like and probably much more subconscious than not. However, I like the idea. After all, the inferior has to be good for something, yeah?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  2. #42
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Ni is like a raindrop landing in a lake, that which takes the plunge into itself.

  3. #43
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    The raindrop is the lake.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  4. #44
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    The raindrop is the lake.
    Yeah that was kind of my point.

  5. #45
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    The simile is the metaphor.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  6. #46
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    The simile is the metaphor with "like" or "as."
    Fixed.

    But seriuosly...you're Ni-ing something on me, and I don't think I get it.

  7. #47
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    If I answer, the answer is no longer zen.
    If I do not answer, the answer is no answer.
    So though I answer now...
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  8. #48
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    I've been accused of mixing up Ni with Si and Ni with Te...

    I confess. I've got problems with Ni. I guess I've got quite a clear image of Si and Te, actually. But what's the difference between Ni and Ne?

    Ne sees outside things and associates randomly like mad... But to me, the associations don't discern between outside and inside. There are links everywhere - from observation to memory, from one fact in the memory to the other, from memory to observation... If you see a dragon in a cloud, you're comparing with an inside image of a dragon, don't you?

    What-if questions = Ni?
    Looking at the blackboard in a dull lesson and imagining it melting away, creating a hole where you fly through = Ne? Ni? The landscape behind the blackboard certainly comes from inside my mind...
    Looking at people in the train and imagining original reasons why they are there = Ne?
    Imagining a story while writing it down or while discussing about the Prussian empire = Ne? Ni?
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

  9. #49
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Ummm...

    Well, it's an introverted process, so it doesn't ping too well off things that happen in the moment. Not immediately, anyway. It can, but that's more like drawing on a reservoir of insights and suddenly completing a picture. But when (I do / it does) that, I don't have the same kind of confidence in the insight that I would normally. (Though I will certainly assert in the moment that I do, it wears thin pretty quickly.)

    What rings true to me is Ni as the visionary with respect to prima facie forms. But that kind of vision takes time, this thing being connected to that thing being connected to this other one by form and that one by this, and so on, and all coming together in this overall shape which is the form that connects all things here.

    That kind of thing.

    That seems to account for the airyness of definition INTJs use and the oft cited perspective shifts we use to "cheat" our way to being right all the time.


    Come to think of it, the whole thing is a little like (*) what you said before about "horse" coming under "animal" in the proper ordering of things, except that it seems to be rather freer than that example suggests. It seems possible to order everything in any way imaginable, just so long as a detectable connection could be imagined. Observe however, while one instance of Ni in operation will probably not look all that different to one instance of Ne in operation, it's the endless going over of things and drawing out the detectable connections that makes this intuition Ni.


    I think.



    (*) see what I did there?

    "The whole thing is a little like..."

    Forms, traces, connections, links... added together.


    Maybe.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

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