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  1. #21
    Senior Member niffer's Avatar
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    Just for practicing applications of the learned material, I guess.

    Some people think/work better at home as well.

    Also, when you do homework, you practice *other* skills.
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  2. #22
    To the top of the world arcticangel02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    In Germany, for example, school starts at about 8am, but finishes at 1pm - but you also have to go to school on a Saturday, from 8am to about 11 or 12.
    True - the school I went to in Germany didn't have saturday classes, but instead on two days a week, the kids would come back to school at 2pm and have another class or two, so they'd be finished no later than 3:30.

    But it's still the same sort of thing - you have that much extra time in the afternoons, so it doesn't feel like all you're doing is homework and school and having no free time at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by cascademn View Post
    I guess if I never did any of the homework in school, I wouldn't have retained a thing, and I would have done poorly on the tests. I'm thinking specifically of math homework -- I learned by doing. Yes, you could 'learn' a fair amount by just reading the book, but a lot of it came down to practice and actually DOING it. (etc)
    This is pretty much exactly what I think.

    I don't necessarily agree with homework before about year 8... young children just aren't going to learn that way. But in high school, it's important to get into that habit of doing and completing homework to prepare you for college, and then real life.

    Sure, all you Js out there would probably cope fine with deadlines and all that jazz in the workplace even without extensive preparation, but honestly, for the P half of the population, the only way we're going to be able to complete things on time is by having no other choice!!

    For example, the high school I went to started giving us 'exams' long before any of the other schools did - it was only required to do them in year 11 and 12, and then at the end of year 12 was the big university entrance examinations. My school started doing exams in year 9... they were shorter, and much less important, but by the time we got to year 11 and the end of year 12, we were so used to exams that they were no big deal. But talking to friends who did their first exams in year 11, they struggled! It's hard to go straight from doing nothing to something very serious and important.

    Homework's a bit like that. It's not fun to do it, but you have to. So you do.

    Uber, I honestly think that if schools didn't give out any homework, 90% of people wouldn't learn anything at all. Sure, there's the few, like you maybe, who'd be interested enough to learn in-class, and maybe be motivated enough to do their own research. But all the others would pay little attention and forget about it as soon as they walked out the door. Homework forces you to go back and apply that knowledge - and if you didn't pay attention, to make sure you find out what it is you're supposed to know.

    Like studying for exams, or whatever, if you go over something three or four times, it's much more likely to sink into your brain than if you just half-listen to a teacher talking about something once.

    And yes, learning is much easier and funner when you're interested in whatever subject they're teaching. But it's going to be impossible to muster interest in every subject, and what then? Are you doomed to fail every class you're not totally engaged with?

    But going beyond simple 'learning', there are a lot of fields that require you to have the dedication and motivation to complete lengthy projects which, regardless of how smart you are or how much you know, are going to take you hours and hours and hours to complete. (I'm an architecture student, at current, and we regularly have projects that we easily spend 60+ hours on.)

    What then? If you haven't been forced to do homework in high school, if you hadn't learned how to follow deadlines on relatively minor bits of homework, how on earth are you going to sit yourself down and work for that long? (Perhaps this is coming from my Ne, but) I can't see anyone being able to remain interested and involved and enthusiastic about a project for that long. At some point, you're just going to have to do it, regardless of how you feel about it.

    Yes, I learned this the hard way. I was not exactly dedicated at doing homework in high school, and I still find it a challenge to not procrastinate. Motivation is a tricky thing.
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  3. #23
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    It is very different for me to deal with deadlines at work and deadlines in a school setting.The first kind always guarantees, be it directly or not, a monetary reward for being on time, whereas with the second the relationship isn't clear cut, given that grades have been widely shown to correspond to a variation at best of 0.12 and at worst of 0.09 in terms of adult income.

  4. #24
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Because they don't structure the lessons in such a way that a sufficient amount of study can be done in class. I don't really like homework either, and don't welcome their invasion of my time, considering how much of it I already give them. But if I get homework, I get it done, although I tend to grumble about it a bit.

    Also, I tend to gather a lot from lectures and such. I usually don't even take notes, because I learn best from just listening to the discussion and not dividing my attention. I also tend to participate more than other students, and get more out of it. I had one teacher that was always inviting people to ask questions, but they all seemed so intimidated by the way he explained things for some reason that no one wanted to ask them. I don't understand why. Interestingly, one of the questions I asked him was about British soldiers taking jobs from the colonists. He said that was one of the problems they had with the soldiers, and I asked how the soldiers had time to work other jobs if they were supposed to be doing their assigned jobs (as soldiers), and why they needed jobs if they were being paid by the Crown? He went on to explain that they weren't being paid much, and that there weren't many threats in their area, so they weren't that busy. Then he went on to explain how jobs were handed out in the British military, the low priority of the colonies in their eyes and the reasons for it, and how that contributed to the growing discontent of the colonists.

    Everyone else seemed surprised that I asked that question, and apparently a group of them started wondering if I were a history major. Things like that seem to happen a lot... I ask a simple question, and everyone thinks I'm really intelligent or something. Why is that?

  5. #25
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    I don't understand. Home and work should not mix. School is where work is done. Home is your time. I think that giving homework is an invasion of privacy laws.

    Who agrees?

    If you disagree, then shame on you.

    (I'd still love to hear your warped perspective.)
    I never did.

    No one does.
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  6. #26
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    Because they don't structure the lessons in such a way that a sufficient amount of study can be done in class. I don't really like homework either, and don't welcome their invasion of my time, considering how much of it I already give them. But if I get homework, I get it done, although I tend to grumble about it a bit.

    Also, I tend to gather a lot from lectures and such. I usually don't even take notes, because I learn best from just listening to the discussion and not dividing my attention. I also tend to participate more than other students, and get more out of it. I had one teacher that was always inviting people to ask questions, but they all seemed so intimidated by the way he explained things for some reason that no one wanted to ask them. I don't understand why. Interestingly, one of the questions I asked him was about British soldiers taking jobs from the colonists. He said that was one of the problems they had with the soldiers, and I asked how the soldiers had time to work other jobs if they were supposed to be doing their assigned jobs (as soldiers), and why they needed jobs if they were being paid by the Crown? He went on to explain that they weren't being paid much, and that there weren't many threats in their area, so they weren't that busy. Then he went on to explain how jobs were handed out in the British military, the low priority of the colonies in their eyes and the reasons for it, and how that contributed to the growing discontent of the colonists.

    Everyone else seemed surprised that I asked that question, and apparently a group of them started wondering if I were a history major. Things like that seem to happen a lot... I ask a simple question, and everyone thinks I'm really intelligent or something. Why is that?
    The why is the occupation of the solicitor.

  7. #27
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    The why is the occupation of the solicitor.
    Do you mean that they are fixated on my tendency to question things?

  8. #28
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    To weed out the conscientious ones, from the careless/unethical ones, from the clueless ones.

    1. conscientious ones do all the math problems involving geometry and angles A to E.
    2. careless/unethical ones borrow their solutions on geometry, BUT copy angle E wrongly as angle F.
    3. Clueless ones mass produce angle Fs across their books.

    resulting in long-suffering teacher being able to identify whom 1, 2, and 3 were and dish out appropriate measures.

    At least. That's how it happened in my time.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    This may be an unpopular opinion, but I think homework is pretty necessary--particularly math practice and reading homework.

    A lot of schools are on a block schedule now, which means that there are only ninety, rather than one hundred and eighty, days of instruction per class. You're in class for ninety minutes at a time, but it is still an incredibly short amount of time to cover material. If you don't do homework on the block, there's no way to cover an adequate amount of information or build up enough of the skills outlined in the standard course of study. In an English class, you either give reading homework or you spend the class time reading. If you spend the class time reading, you can't get a lot of discussion or skill-building in.

    And then on the traditional schedule, you've got about 45 minutes of instruction a day but a hundred and eighty days of instruction. You still have to give reading homework on this schedule or you'll not get anything done in terms of skill-building, which is the point of school.

    Homework should only be useful work, though. It shouldn't be assigned for the sake of making an assignment. If it's not worth actually using for assessment, it's not worth assigning.



    I also really just don't have that much sympathy when kids talk about how their time at home is their time. Shit, man, I have two jobs and I bring home at LEAST an hour (definitely more most of the time) of work (planning and grading) from school every day. If I can't get it done during the week, I spend a large part of my weekend doing homework (and incidentally, I almost never GIVE weekend homework).

    Our school board policy on homework is no more than 30 minutes of work a night from each class, which IF they have that much will equal two hours of homework daily. I don't assign nearly that much, so I get pretty irritated when I hear bitching and moaning about it. We can't open up your brains and dump the information in. You'll have to do some damn work, and it can't all be done during the school day. Nor should it: you SHOULD have to do some work independently sometimes.

    Meh.

    I am, of course, talking about the high school level.
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  10. #30
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    At the high school level there's really no getting around it- IMO the students are (or should be) transitioning to a more adult, abstract form of learning. Even in middle school they can start practicing it. I tend to think regular homework in the elementary grades is inappropriate and probably means the teacher is overly focused on busywork. They haven't yet formed their concrete foundation, they're not ready for the abstractions yet.
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