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  1. #21
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    People who have an official mental illness or mental retardation get all the respect in the world these days.
    That's like saying people of colour get all the respect in the world these days. It's a gross over-generalization that doesn't reflect reality for most people most days.

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    +1

    Also, Victor, how certain are you that all of these posts were intended as "cruelty" or bullying. It is an unusual thing to be faced with, and perhaps people were attempting to deflect the strangeness of it, or turn it into something light hearted to change the subject.

    How do you know that people suffering from other less obvious mental illnesses aren't on this forum every day.

    I think Marma makes a good point about posters not knowing what to do with a clear psychotic episode (or given that this is online people lack clues to know what is a joke and what is a real situation), but I don't think most of the posts on that thread were full of grace and respect. The mentally unhealthy OP was mocked, even if it was not with ill intent.

    If I was that poster and in a stretch of mental clarity I came back to read that thread, I would be pretty appalled with the responses to me while I was having a psychotic episode. It would be seriously depressing. I would feel terribly alone and dehumanized.

    On the whole, I don't think the people who replied to that thread were intentionally cruel, and I agree that people were trying to deal with a situation they didn't know how to respond to. But does our motive for our behaviour matter? I think motive matters to some degree, but I also think that regardless of motive we ought to take responsibility for our actions.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  2. #22
    (blankpages) Xenon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    Is it possible that some people are not being intentionally cruel and have an inaccurate perception of a mentally ill poster?
    I was going to say something like this. People post bizarre things on the internet all the time, just for the hell of it, and sit back and watch how people react. It's easy to assume someone's just trolling or seeking attention.

    I've been on my share of forums, and the only ones in which people respond differently are those specifically devoted to mental health issues. Otherwise, this is pretty much how it is, mbti belief or no mbti belief.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    +1

    Also, Victor, how certain are you that all of these posts were intended as "cruelty" or bullying. It is an unusual thing to be faced with, and perhaps people were attempting to deflect the strangeness of it, or turn it into something light hearted to change the subject.

    How do you know that people suffering from other less obvious mental illnesses aren't on this forum every day.
    Sure, it's unintentional cruelty, off hand cruelty, the kind of cruelty you have when you are not having any cruelty.

    It is the kind of cruelty that can be plausibly denied.

  4. #24
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Yes, I do think the emotional cruelty is unintentional - but that only makes it worse.

    It is unintentional because it is taken for granted.

    And it is unintentional because everybody else is doing it.

    It is unintentional because it is mob psychology backed by a society that very intentionally expelled the mentally ill from proper care in order to save money.

    It is the unintentional cruelty of a cruel society.

    The Enlightenment took the mentally ill out of the prisons and gave them sanctuary in the asylum.

    But in this superstitious world we are entering, the Enlightenment has been overturned and the vulnerable are the victims.
    There is a type of unintentional cruelty that results from the assumption that someone is somehow "less human" because of group consensus. When someone is viewed in a dehumanizing manner, then there is implicit permission to treat them differently in a negative manner. That is different from simply not knowing that a person is sick.

    I have had online friends who described having hallucinations and intensely depressive thoughts who became quite unpopular and people got rather negative towards, and it was upsetting. Somehow realizing that those people didn't have the same information as I had is important. Also, some making those comments might have had some of their own emotional/mental struggles that I didn't have information about.

    I think it is good to recognize when something was done that caused a hurt so it can be prevented and/or corrected, but to not dismiss the individuals themselves as "cruel".

    Quote Originally Posted by blankpages View Post
    I was going to say something like this. People post bizarre things on the internet all the time, just for the hell of it, and sit back and watch how people react. It's easy to assume someone's just trolling or seeking attention.

    I've been on my share of forums, and the only ones in which people respond differently are those specifically devoted to mental health issues. Otherwise, this is pretty much how it is, mbti belief or no mbti belief.
    I can think of a number of examples where something unexpected was thrown out there to get a reaction just as some sort of social experiment which was later revealed. I think it is a Ne gone wild sort of endeavor. It can also be to create some sort of game to toy with the imagination. I know quite a few people in the experimental arts that have a communication style that can seem almost completely random at times, but they are not associated with any sort of mental illness, and function fine in society. Some communicate with about 50% made up words in a sort of verbal scat, or who break into poetry about cloud farts and sleeping cheese, or who start singing at random times, etc. I've also known people with mental illness. Without seeing body language, it can be difficult to tell what the point of the communication is especially if it is only a few words.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
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    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  5. #25
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blankpages View Post
    I was going to say something like this. People post bizarre things on the internet all the time, just for the hell of it, and sit back and watch how people react. It's easy to assume someone's just trolling or seeking attention.

    I've been on my share of forums, and the only ones in which people respond differently are those specifically devoted to mental health issues. Otherwise, this is pretty much how it is, mbti belief or no mbti belief.
    Except the thread responders all immediately agreed that this was likely a for realz psychotic episode. The responses were made after this general consensus.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Thanks St. Ronnie!

    It's just what happens in any society. Mentally ill people destabilize society, whether that's morally justified or not. It's a cruel tragedy, but this is one of those circumstances where life's just not fair, and there's very little we as a society can do to counteract this.

    Many of those asylums were nothing but glorified prisons.

    What do you want to do about it when individual effort won't be enough? Get out there and start helping instead of complaining about a personality site.
    It's true. I was a member of the R.D.Laing (Ronnie) Society at the University of New South Wales and we made it our practice to visit the Psych Ward of Little Bay Hospital.

    And ever since we have made it our business to befriend those who are suffering from a mental illness.

    And how shameful it is that this site is not safe for those suffering from a mental illness. In fact the first response of this site is to ban them almost as though mental illness is contagious.

    And the belief that mental illness is contagious is a superstition on par with MBTI or astrology. It is as though the Enlightenment has never occurred.

    How unfortunate for you that the internet has put you in touch with a whole country based on the Scottish and English Enlightenment.

  7. #27
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    It's true. I was a member of the R.D.Laing (Ronnie) Society at the University of New South Wales and we made it our practice to visit the Psych Ward of Little Bay Hospital.
    I was talking about Reagan, natch.

    And ever since we have made it our business to befriend those who are suffering from a mental illness.

    And how shameful it is that this site is not safe for those suffering from a mental illness. In fact the first response of this site is to ban them almost as though mental illness is contagious.
    This is clearly not the case. By no means does this site shun those of diverse cognitive processes.

    And the belief that mental illness is contagious is a superstition on par with MBTI or astrology. It is as though the Enlightenment has never occurred.
    How unfortunate that you misunderstood me.

    How unfortunate for you that the internet has put you in touch with a whole country based on the Scottish and English Enlightenment.
    Interesting - wasn't it those two countries which also brought us the Industrial Revolution and modern capitalism, which did more to undermine Enlightenment ideas than anything?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Sure, it's unintentional cruelty, off hand cruelty, the kind of cruelty you have when you are not having any cruelty.

    It is the kind of cruelty that can be plausibly denied.
    You're being just a touch pompous here, yes? This person wasn't reaching out to us or asking for our help. If anything, people were reacting in their usual manner to a thread that is not personally directed toward any one person. For all we know, the person was so out of touch that they didn't understand what was being said, anyhow. I would say that if people were sending PMs or reps to this person taunting them, that would be something else entirely.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    You're being just a touch pompous here, yes? This person wasn't reaching out to us or asking for our help. If anything, people were reacting in their usual manner to a thread that is not personally directed toward any one person. For all we know, the person was so out of touch that they didn't understand what was being said, anyhow. I would say that if people were sending PMs or reps to this person taunting them, that would be something else entirely.
    Perhaps the greatest suffering of the mentally ill is social exclusion.

    And that is what was delivered to a mentally ill person without a second thought.

  10. #30
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    What did I miss!

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