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  1. #11
    Mud and rain and chaos... TickTock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    You're gonna have to expound upon that conclusion, because I see absolutely no basis for it as I understand it. You can stand to gain with any attitude if you play your cards right.
    Alright. A little bit. Typing on this thing isn't easy.

    Essentially, being a jerk can yield results but it is at the expense of someones self-esteem for example - either way it is putting at least someone down. To raise value of another. This is zero sum, collectively the totals are zero. E.g. A tennis match, one mans point is anothers loss. This principle is how wars work. I won't digress. Back to jerks... Yes it can work, but there is more value in a relationship of non-zero sum where the person is happy to work towards your goal as you both gain in doing so, e.g. The reward might be feeling good.
    ~ Truth ~ Freedom ~ Health ~ Love ~ Communication ~ Humor ~ Respect ~

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by TickTock View Post
    Alright. A little bit. Typing on this thing isn't easy.

    Essentially, being a jerk can yield results but it is at the expense of someones self-esteem for example - either way it is putting at least someone down. To raise value of another. This is zero sum, collectively the totals are zero. E.g. A tennis match, one mans point is anothers loss. This principle is how wars work. I won't digress. Back to jerks... Yes it can work, but there us more value in a relationship of non-zero sum where the person is happy to work towards your goal as you both gain in doing so, e.g. The reward might be feeling good.
    Yea, your appraisal of jerkyness holds up when we are considering feelings and self esteem. But in the world of tangible results, being a jerk often has real rewards regardless of the peripheral social/psychological implications. When it comes to being a jerk, it's the ends that justify the means. Everything in between is largely irrelevant to whether being a jerk works or not because as long as the person achieves the result they were looking for, thats all that matters! It doesn't matter what their self esteem is or that you may consider them irredeemable ass holes. It still works to their benefit in the end, benefits that can often be readily observed outside of the mind.

  3. #13
    Mud and rain and chaos... TickTock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Yea, your appraisal of jerkyness holds up when we are considering feelings and self esteem. But in the world of tangible results, being a jerk often has real rewards regardless of the peripheral social/psychological implications. When it comes to being a jerk, it's the ends that justify the means. Everything in between is largely irrelevant to whether being a jerk works or not because as long as the person achieves the result they were looking for, thats all that matters! It doesn't matter what their self esteem is or that you may consider them irredeemable ass holes. It still works to their benefit in the end, benefits that can often be readily observed outside of the mind.
    You are trying to seperate the action of being a jerk from it's result in personal implications on others and only looking at its "tangible results", when the very notion of being a jerk IS not a process but a personal attack.

    Yes I agree it gets results, I am simply saying there are better ways.

    Incidently, I was suprised you have a MLK Jnr quote in your sig. For your own benefit when looking at something don't pick out only what applies to you and ignore the rest. I thought you were INTP.
    ~ Truth ~ Freedom ~ Health ~ Love ~ Communication ~ Humor ~ Respect ~

  4. #14
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    Alright so one of the classes at college I have to do an oral presentation on attitude. The specifics beyond that were pretty much open ended.

    Since I absolutely abhor oral presentations, I decided to go with something I can really get into and provide real conviction to, as well as corrupting the purpose of the presentation.

    So I'm doing my report on: why having a bad attitude is a good thing!



    Now I know there's some pretty obvious reasons... yeu flat out get things handed to yeu when yeu're a total asshat, get rules bent for yeu, and so on.

    How many people get their own way in a store by being a jerk? Butt in line and get to keep it? That annoying as hell boss of yeurs who gets paid 10X as much as yeu do but has an attitude that drips acid?

    These're pretty obvious ones, but I'm curious if anyone has any really good ones they've seen recently for examples. I need to fill a good 2-3 minutes worth of babbling here, and want to cite as many examples as humanly possible to piss people off XD
    ... I'll tell you why being a jerk is good. Because there are little retards that decide to respect the selfishness of a jerk and look up to them.

    Now if you mean good as in 'what you get' out of being a jerk it should not have the title of 'good'. It should have the title 'the selfish gains of a jerk' or something along those lines.

  5. #15
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Yeah I should've worded it better XD

    Honestly, it actually doesn't *JUST* cover being a jerk either... it's "any" bad attitude. So even someone who complains about everything constantly. Someone who argues with everyone. Someone who just isn't pleasant to be around due to how they deal with people.

    The topic is so broad originally, I figured I'd try to narrow it down to 'just' jerks really for simplicity's sake =3

    So far I've got enough material now between my own thoughts and those shared here that I think I can fill it up ^^




    And yes, I do agree... being a jerk is not the best way to do things. The whole "be nice but manipulative" works far better as was stated. Being a jerk is not a great way to do things, as for any positive benefit yeu receive, yeu also make an enemy in the process. If the ends justify the means, however...

    Anyways, it's an interesting topic which could be further expanded upon, though I am pleased to see responses already. If yeu have more examples though, please feel free to continue contributing! I'll be checking back to try to refine this a bit more as well, always need a bit of editing here and there ^^

  6. #16
    Senior Member Tikka's Avatar
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    This is the only good jerk.

  7. #17
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Silly premise.

  8. #18
    Pumpernickel
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    HMMMMMMM some examples

    at school - there's always the kid who harasses the TAs for every grade deduction. Even if they don't get the grades, the TA will probably remember the kid and it will probably influence their grade in the future, to avoid being harassed by them again.

    Also, people flock to you for when you're a jerk, and are extra careful not to piss you off.

    Also, a lot of women like jerks, oddly enough.

  9. #19
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    When you're consistently a 'jerk', you're simply creating an underclass of vulnerable people willing to temporarily accomodate your behavior until you leave the room. You're not establishing any real (Read: respectable) power. You're just a bully.

    Make no mistake --anyone worth their weight in self-worth will make you eat your words.

  10. #20
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    I thought the purpose of this was to think of the PROs, not the cons =/

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