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  1. #81
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Recognizing difference is not the same as creating hierarchies.
    Differences among people imply non-equality, as two things cannot be separate but equal.

    Non-equality implies social status.

    Social status implies hierarchies.

  2. #82
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    As to the OP; I'd agree that civility in American society has considerably declined.

    As to manners? I do like when people say please and thank you. Opening a door for a stranger carrying a lot of packages is nice to see.

    A woman's role has changed in society by group agreement and choice; with that change
    the former social contract that provided the considerations in the OP are no longer applicable.

    It would be nice to have one's cake, and eat it too.

    Many women don't even want to share their husbands surname anymore.

    Dating? If we're not taking turns paying the bill; we're going dutch. That seems to becoming more so the norm...which I think is a good thing, in that if the other person is spending money to be with you. It probably means they really enjoy your company, and grasp the consept of mutual respect.

    *off my rant*

  3. #83
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kra View Post

    Is indifference really such a malevolent sin?
    I don't care either way

  4. #84
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    Indifference is the greatest sin of them all. Love it or hate it, don't be indifferent. If no one would care about anything, this world would crumble upon it's own weight.

  5. #85
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Recognizing difference is not the same as creating hierarchies.
    Too bad most people leave the recognizing part to others.

  6. #86
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kra View Post
    On another note, I find it disappointing that most have turned this into a dichotomy.

    Not holding a door open for someone should never be classified the same as slamming one on a person. Yet they are given the same label of "bad" manners.

    Is indifference really such a malevolent sin?
    Indifference is failure to consider. In some ways this error is more egregious than outright disrespect.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Perhaps it is being done in the wrong spirit or you are interpreting it in the wrong spirit. I appreciate if anyone holds a door for me. It neither offends me nor makes me feel obligated. I see it for what it is. A spark of courtesy and thoughtfulness.
    Sometimes when it is a random stranger, I find myself actively hoping they don't do it because then I know I'd have to sort of hurry up so that they don't stand there too long with the door open.

    It's probably different for women too, through past experience I've realized men all too often expect you to feel obligated when they do something like pay for you or treat you especially well.

    Maybe its a type thing too, I get pretty uncomfortable when I feel like somebody is making some sort of bigger deal out of me (inferior Fi?) It can push me into an uncomfortable emotional place.

  8. #88
    Black Magic Buzzard Kra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by am_i_evil666 View Post
    Indifference is the greatest sin of them all. Love it or hate it, don't be indifferent. If no one would care about anything, this world would crumble upon it's own weight.
    On the contrary, many people would be more productive if they were more honest about their self-concern. Not to mention that people would be more trustworthy in a way, as there would be no mystery of what their true intentions were.
    Function Activity:
    Ni > Te > Ti = Fi > Ne > Si = Fe > Se

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kra View Post
    On the contrary, many people would be more productive if they were more honest about their self-concern. Not to mention that people would be more trustworthy in a way, as there would be no mystery of what their true intentions were.
    If people were indifferent about everything, forums like this would not exist.
    Nothing would evolve.

    It would not matter anyway if people were more trustworthy or not, because they would not care.

    You care, because you are not indifferent.

  10. #90
    Senior Member une_autre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kra View Post
    On another note, I find it disappointing that most have turned this into a dichotomy.

    Not holding a door open for someone should never be classified the same as slamming one on a person. Yet they are given the same label of "bad" manners.

    Is indifference really such a malevolent sin?
    Say that you have a particular type of fire door, that has a very rigid spring which makes it slam very hard.
    Given this specific door, not holding it open would mean slamming it on a person.
    And unless obvious circumstances prevent you from holding a door e.g. holding heavy objects, to me, skipping this simple piece of manner, to call it so, it is rude and unnecessary.

    The problem is not reduced to this simple example, but manners are in a way the oil on the hinges of this society. It gets dry, it's going to screech.

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