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  1. #21
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    I might agree that without certain ritual chaos might arise (using a very loose definition of chaos, I mean). But the fact remains I think it's morally dishonest for me to be a "gentleman" if I don't mean it. I'm like a robot performing like I was told to do without wondering why.

    And if I personally find no reason to do it, why should I?

    Ditto.
    The hope is that by learning these rituals you will eventually learn to be a gentleman. And if you never learn, at least you are aping proper conduct.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    This is part of what I mean by silly social rituals. I don't think that any gender has any real social rights, I just treat people equally. That seems like the most sane thing to do.
    Exactly. I often hold doors open for other people. I don't do so because I'm male, and I don't do so because they're female (for example). I just DO, because it's polite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    This presumes that a woman may be reduced to being defined as a host for a vagina. Do you see what a clod this makes you look like?
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    He was basically distinguishing the differences between the genders, which are reproductive organs. In this day and age, each gender can pretty much do whatever job equally, and there is less and less of a distinguishment. Including in social rituals.
    I'll partake in any social ritual you want, if it can be justified. I can't justify why I should stand up because a woman enters a room.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Manners are no more a restraint than due consideration for others is a restraint.
    Well, due consideration isn't imposed by third parties on these individuals. "Manners" are.

  4. #24
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Men and women are only different in the way we differ in our genitals? I disagree obviously.
    I meant in how they should be treated socially. Basically, what Quinlan put. "What is the practical purpose?"

    I did not, in no place in my post, say that that was the only divider of the genders. The context implied (the previous posts and this thread title) that this is about social rules. For me, the only divider genderwise is reproductive organs, and that is basically a stupid reason to treat someone differently in a social rules sense of things. When it comes to how I treat people and my common courtesy values, people are people, people aren't genders.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    I might agree that without certain ritual chaos might arise (using a very loose definition of chaos, I mean). But the fact remains I think it's morally dishonest for me to be a "gentleman" if I don't mean it. I'm like a robot performing like I was told to do without wondering why.

    And if I personally find no reason to do it, why should I?



    Ditto.
    You'll never get laid this way, bro.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Hexis's Avatar
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    Common courtesy i respect, politeness I respect. But to be polite or have common courtesy does not mean I should be obligated by some gender role to open doors, stand up from a table, take my hat off or watch my mouth. You earn my courtesy, and my politeness along with my respect when these things are earned, not at "Hello.".
    SDMF

  7. #27
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by am_i_evil666 View Post
    You'll never get laid this way, bro.
    Not by you.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  8. #28
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    The hope is that by learning these rituals you will eventually learn to be a gentleman. And if you never learn, at least you are aping proper conduct.
    Yes, proper being the key word, here. Proper as in socially acceptable. Just because some rituals stood the test of time, doesn't mean they were ever valid.

    There are so many examples of it's all so subjective. Take Japan for instance. I think non-Japanese would be hard pressed to see value in a lot of their social rituals. They see them as essential, we do not. Now is Japan better because of it?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexis View Post
    Common courtesy i respect, politeness I respect. But to be polite or have common courtesy does not mean I should be obligated by some gender role to open doors, stand up from a table, take my hat off or watch my mouth. You earn my courtesy, and my politeness along with my respect when these things are earned, not at "Hello.".
    I was not talking about random social encounters.
    I was talking about a relationship that has passed the stage of "acquaintance". I should have specified that.

  10. #30
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Yes, proper being the key word, here. Proper as in socially acceptable. Just because some rituals stood the test of time, doesn't mean they were ever valid.

    There are so many examples of it's all so subjective. Take Japan for instance. I think non-Japanese would be hard pressed to see value in a lot of their social rituals. They see them as essential, we do not. Now is Japan better because of it?
    For Japanese people that want to get on well in their society, yes.

    Would you open a door in New Jersey to impress someone in Paraguay?

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