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  1. #181
    Senior Member mockingbird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
    Look. I hold doors open for everyone, and I'm a girl. It is my experience actually that women are more likely to do this than men. If the person's hands are full ESPECIALLY. If I could count the amount of times a door has closed in front of a poor struggling person cuz of some guy on his cell phone....urgh. I usually go open it for them, haha, I find that mean to leave them there.

    It's not necessary to hold doors? But it's kind. Men and women BOTH should do it. And please please please do it when people actually need you to.
    I agree with this. I'm a woman, and I don't mind men opening doors for me because I do the same for a man if I get to the door ahead of him, or he is struggling with carrying something. Everyone should show respect and consideration for others regardles of gender.
    Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana.
    ~ Groucho Marx

  2. #182
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feops View Post
    The guys stopped being gentlemen when the gals stopped being ladies.
    Ladies still exist, just as gentlemen still exist.
    Something Witty

  3. #183
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    Ladies still exist, just as gentlemen still exist.
    There's not many of them though. I'm no lady =3

    To qualify for "gentleman" or "lady" status, there's actually a pretty strict set of rules to follow. For example, a woman is not allowed to wear pants, only a dress, she's not allowed to talk without being spoken to first, she's not allowed to have a paying job, nor is she allowed to have an active role in society in general.

    Examples include women in the past who would hold intellectual debate parties... but weren't allowed to actually participate except to answer direct questions. Some of the smartest women back in the day would actually host these things with writers and other intellectuals and such, and provide all sorts of insight and commentary, but they would never be allowed to be given credit for such. Alot of major changes, great books/poems/plays, rulings of government, and so on, came from these types of parties, and specifically from the female host. But because they were to uphold their title... they couldn't do any of that on their own, or loose their title and any power that went with it.

    To be perfectly blunt, I do not EVER want to be considered a lady. It's a pretty nasty insult if yeu actually know the history and such of it... I'm quite partial to being anything but.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    There's not many of them though. I'm no lady =3

    To qualify for "gentleman" or "lady" status, there's actually a pretty strict set of rules to follow. For example, a woman is not allowed to wear pants, only a dress, she's not allowed to talk without being spoken to first, she's not allowed to have a paying job, nor is she allowed to have an active role in society in general.

    Examples include women in the past who would hold intellectual debate parties... but weren't allowed to actually participate except to answer direct questions. Some of the smartest women back in the day would actually host these things with writers and other intellectuals and such, and provide all sorts of insight and commentary, but they would never be allowed to be given credit for such. Alot of major changes, great books/poems/plays, rulings of government, and so on, came from these types of parties, and specifically from the female host. But because they were to uphold their title... they couldn't do any of that on their own, or loose their title and any power that went with it.

    To be perfectly blunt, I do not EVER want to be considered a lady. It's a pretty nasty insult if yeu actually know the history and such of it... I'm quite partial to being anything but.
    Way to take the argument to the extreme.

    Does anyone still do this who has a brain on their shoulders?

    No.

    Manners still have their place in civil society.

  5. #185
    Junior Member Cheetah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
    Look. I hold doors open for everyone, and I'm a girl. It is my experience actually that women are more likely to do this than men. If the person's hands are full ESPECIALLY. If I could count the amount of times a door has closed in front of a poor struggling person cuz of some guy on his cell phone....urgh. I usually go open it for them, haha, I find that mean to leave them there.

    It's not necessary to hold doors? But it's kind. Men and women BOTH should do it. And please please please do it when people actually need you to.
    +1 (but from a guy)

    I'm from the younger generation half of you seem to hate, and so I have this weird idea that treating someone differently based on which set of reproductive organs they have is called "sexism" I hold the door for people because it's polite, not because they have the other set of organs. And if you expect me to hold it for that reason, you can damn well open it yourself, because you aren't worth wasting the time it takes me to hold it.

  6. #186
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    Seeing the actual disdain that some people have for manners surprises me a bit. I can't imagine taking personal insult just because someone opened a door for me. Sounds stressful. I hardly doubt I'm undoing 100 years of social progress just because I position myself street-side when walking down the sidewalk with a woman.
    Me thinks you lack the kind of competitive female influence I had. Positioning yourself with such responsibility is one step shy of saying that you are more capable, that would not fly.

    Note I'm against gender based assumptions on manners not because I dislike manners but because I dislike the idea that the genders should be ingrained as different in capability without recourse to looking at the individual involved. Manners aren't laws, they're not hard and fast. They're not something you can be sued for not following. They're guidelines and guesstimations.

    If I choose to protect a woman from something or facilitate what she's doing then it is a choice I make based upon the here and now. To say that I have to do these things or I'm supposed to removes the element where I make the choice, where I decide to make the gift of being courteous to a fellow human being. That I object to.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  7. #187
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
    Look. I hold doors open for everyone, and I'm a girl. It is my experience actually that women are more likely to do this than men.
    Oh come on. I agree with the rest of the post, but that part is unnecessary.

    Personally, I have never seen a woman hold a door to anyone, but I've seen plenty of men do it.

    Nothing can be concluded from either of the statements, it's just our experiences.

  8. #188
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheetah View Post
    +1 (but from a guy)

    I'm from the younger generation half of you seem to hate
    I think Orwell said it best when he said,"Each generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it."

    And to the OP, I don't determine who I'm polite to based on gender or traditions. I try to extend politeness to all people, including children and men.

    On a bus, I offer my seat to people who appear to want it or need it more than I do. I don't expect that men just open doors for me because I'm a woman, but I do appreciate when people go out of their way to to do things that they believe would make my life easier. These little gestures that you speak of are cultural values. Not prescribing to them, or valuing them, says nothing of a person's morality or true character. But if it's important to you, you should find a man who thinks as you think.

    On another note, I've actually seen some women stand at a door and refuse to go through it, waiting for whateverman in their group/party, or whateverman who happens to be around, to open it. It's funniest when there is more than one man, and they look at each other in confusion, trying to figure out who should open it.
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

  9. #189
    Senior Member Feops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    Ladies still exist, just as gentlemen still exist.
    I don't think many still exist in the traditional sense. The original post talked about guys might be expected to do for women, like holding doors open. That some women in the modern day expect to be treated like a princess is amusing.

    I'll throw in that it says a lot about someone if they are polite and helpful in general.

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